C Series Front Tire swap with 312-8 Series

[Wyattrrp 59]

I am new to this site so I am hoping someone can give advise.

I have a 1990 312-8, a 1981 C-125-8 and an 80's C-85 parts tractor. I am wondering if anyone knows what it takes to swap the C-85 wide front tires with the 312's round front tires? I bought a C-125 new in 1981 and it is still performing well, but I like the front wide tires from the old C series better than the smaller 312 round narrow tires. Can the tires (or rims / tires) be swapped or do I need to also swap the front spindles? Does the C spindle fit the vertical axle spindle hole on the 312 or is there more work to retrofit the C series wide turf tires onto the newer 312?

On the same note, the C-85 has nice rear turf tires like my C-125. Does anyone know if swapping those C tires to the 312 would cause any issue like fender / fuel tank clearance and whether the snow chains that are on the rear 312 tires would even fit the C-series turf tires? Winters I run my original C-125 with wheel weights & chains and a 48 inch WH plow and the 312-8 with wheel weights & chains and a 1992 42" single stage high shoot blower for winter snow clearing. I did the swapping of blower vs plow depending on snow depth for 2 years and had to get the 312 to have each sitting on standby for winter storm. Too many swaps in the cold after last years huge storm buildup.

Appreciate any help you can give.

Thanks

[Sparky-(Admin) 24,035]

The fronts on your 312 are probably 6" so to maintain a level tractor you should swap the spindles from the C-85 to the 312. All the rear tires on all of your machines are swappable with no clearance issues. If your swapping chains between same size tires there will be no problem but some 312's had shorter rear tires (22" I think) so you may have to experiment to see if they will fit. Chains are somewhat forgiving with the adjustment links.

Mike...........

[Wyattrrp 59]

Thanks Mike.

I assume with this note that the spindles fit either tractor (312 vs C series thus the tire/spindle swap will keep it level). Again thanks.

On another note, do you know of a chart or reference site listing how the B and C series matches the 300 vs 400 vs 500 series once Toro took over? I am wondering whether all 300 series are similar to C series for frame and parts. How did they switch from a B C D listing to 200, 300, 400 500 system? What is equal to which? Does the B equal the200 and C- equal the 300 and 400 with D equal to 500? I have seen many 520H that look like my C125 in size.

Again thanks for any help.

Wyatt

[Sparky-(Admin) 24,035]

All of your spindles are swappable Wyatt.

The C's are pretty much the came as the 300-400-500 series size wise. The D's are a totally different animal and are not comparable to the 500 series. The 300 were slightly less heavy duty than the 400 series with 1" axles and a 4 pinion rear end ( still not a weak rear end tho). The 400's were a bit more heavy duty and came in both 8 speeds ( 1 1/8th axles and 8 pinions) and hydro's with hydraulic lift. The 500's were the Cadillacs of the line up. They were the same as a 400 series hydro till 91 (I think) when the swept forward front axle came out. They were also available with a 60" deck. They did make a few 8 speed 520's but they are far and few between.

Mike........

[Irv 115]

I've put the 8" tires and wheels on my 300 tractors without a problem (without changing spindels). If you have a deck on it you may want to adjust it to be level. The only other thing is depending on how wide the tires are you may touch the deck on a sharp turn if it's a 37" sd.

[can whlvr 994]

:WRS: many of the parts from all of these tractors interchange,even some body panels swap from a c to 300-400,i have a 1990 312hydro that has everything heavt duty except the front tires are 6 inch,it even has a 25 amp charging system,but some 500 series have the weak 700 series eaton,strange to me,you would think a 500 series should be tougher than a 300,but not always

[Wyattrrp 59]

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.

Now that i look closely at the spindles I see the 312 vertical spindle shaft extends below the cast axle about 1 inch longer than the one on the "C" does. That must be to make up for the reduced tire diameter from 8" to 6*. So swapping the larger tires onto the 312 would lift the front a little more than an inch. Swapping the spindles will keep the axle height about the same on either unit.

FYI just checked the tires and they are labeled as follows:

C-85 / 8 = 16 x 6.5-8 & 23 x 8.5-12

C-125 / 8 = 16 x 6.5-8 & 23 x 8.5-12

312 / 8 = 15 x 6.0-6 & 23 x 9.5-12

I will swap the front spindles now and the rear tires when I take the weights and chains off come April. I just recently picked up the C-85 for parts (connecting rod broke) for my C-125, assuming and hoping many parts are interchangeable between any of the "C-xx5" models. I needed a rear hub with dual set screws to stop the C-125 hub from sliding inward, a driver seat as the original is in shreds, along with gas gauge and rear discharge 37" deck for mulched leaf sweeping. It was a bargain due to engine issue.

In my opinion those 6 inch front tires do look pretty small on this size tractor so I will swap the 8" with the 312 and see how it looks. I run a 42" SD mower deck on the 312-8 so will see if the 8" tires hit on sharp turns, but the fronts never hit the deck when I ran it on the C-125 for many years.

I see you post manuals for tractors or attachments. I have looked at some but don't see a listing of all those that are available. If anyone is interested I have PDF files of the following manuals and sales brochures but am not sure if you already have them. If interested in any of them let me know how to send or post them. Some are pretty large files as I haven't figured out how to get good quality scans at small files sizes.

Scanned from my personal manuals:

'81 WH B-C-D Owners Manual 38 pgs 24MB

'81 WH Color sales magazine 30 pgs Jackie Stewart sales rep 29MB

'81 WH Color sales pamphlet 32 pgs 11MB

'81 Kohler K241, 301, 321, 341 (10,12,14,16 HP) Owners Man 6pgs 4MB

'90 WH 48 & 42 inch Snow Blade (06-48BC02) Op & Maint Man 6pgs 2MB

'90 Kohler Mag M8,10,12,14,16 Owner Manual 8pgs 2.5MB

'90 Kohler Mag M8,10,12,14,16 Service Manual 152 pgs 5MB

'90 WH 300-400 Series Toro Operators Man 32pgs 7MB

'92 WH 42" Snow Thrower (06-42ST07) Op & Maint Man 7pgs 2MB

thanks again,

Wyatt

[can whlvr 994]

as far as c85to145,pretty much the exact tractor other than engine,wiring may be a little different,so you r in good shape for parts

[tunahead72 2,591]

I see you post manuals for tractors or attachments. I have looked at some but don't see a listing of all those that are available. If anyone is interested I have PDF files of the following manuals and sales brochures but am not sure if you already have them. If interested in any of them let me know how to send or post them. Some are pretty large files as I haven't figured out how to get good quality scans at small files sizes.

Scanned from my personal manuals:

'81 WH B-C-D Owners Manual 38 pgs 24MB

'81 WH Color sales magazine 30 pgs Jackie Stewart sales rep 29MB

'81 WH Color sales pamphlet 32 pgs 11MB

'81 Kohler K241, 301, 321, 341 (10,12,14,16 HP) Owners Man 6pgs 4MB

'90 WH 48 & 42 inch Snow Blade (06-48BC02) Op & Maint Man 6pgs 2MB

'90 Kohler Mag M8,10,12,14,16 Owner Manual 8pgs 2.5MB

'90 Kohler Mag M8,10,12,14,16 Service Manual 152 pgs 5MB

'90 WH 300-400 Series Toro Operators Man 32pgs 7MB

'92 WH 42" Snow Thrower (06-42ST07) Op & Maint Man 7pgs 2MB

Thanks for offering these!

I would personally like to see the B/C/D manual, and the sales documents, and I'm sure all your other files will be useful to somebody else here down the road.

There's no listing that I know of, but the files are organized into categories, so you can pretty quickly browse through them to see what's already available.

I know, for example, that there's a Kohler K241-K341 owner's manual there already, rev. 8/97. There's also a Magnum M8-M16 service manual there, but I don't see a date on it.

Do you happen to have part numbers for your manuals, or issue/revision dates?

The maximum allowable file size is 5 MB, but it's also possible to link to an "internet accessible location". I don't know how to do that, maybe somebody else has done it successfully, or has some other ideas for uploading your larger files?

Here's a thread that gives some general information about uploading documents to RedSquare. By the way, the tab for locating these documents is now called "Files", at the top of every RedSquare page:

Thanks again!

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

Good info. This is a modification I would like to make to my 312.

[Wyattrrp 59]

Tunahead72

A friend showed me how to reduce the PDF files and still be reasonably clear.enough to be able to read the text in the sales brochures. So I posted those along with several manuals, B_C_D Owners included.

I agree the Kholer manuals are either there already or can be had at www.kohlerengines.com

I think a link page would be good to add to the site.

The sales brochures are colorful. Makes one appreciate RED once more. Enjoy.

Wyattrrp

Oh, by the way I also added the booklet Part Numbers to the file names.

Wyatt

[tunahead72 2,591]

Hey, Wyatt, those brochures turned out good, thanks for sharing them (and the manuals) with everybody here. How did you manage to shrink them so much without ruining the text?

There is a "Wheel Horse Links" thread that mentions the Kohler web site. Check it out, there's a lot of really useful information there:

Thanks again, and have fun with your machines! :handgestures-thumbup:

[Wyattrrp 59]

Guys

My 312-8 looks much better with th ec-85 front wheel and spindle swap. Here is a photo. Cant see side view but will post in the spring. I swapped both the wheels and tires by removing the top C Clip and steering tie rod nut on both tractors. The 312 has 6 inch tires with a short vertical spindle. The C-85 has 8inch wider tires and a 1 inch higher (longer) vertical spindle yo raise the front the needed 1 inch radius of tire. I think the 312 looks much better as did the C- series with this 8 inch tire.

Wyattrrp

[can whlvr 994]

good swap out,doesnt the 300 have the longer spindle and the c the shorter

[kpinnc 16,243]

good swap out,doesnt the 300 have the longer spindle and the c the shorter

Don the 300 series have taller spindles, but only by about 3/4 of an inch. I added 8-inch wheels on my 310-8, but kept the taller spindles. I like the stance of that tractor. I have never had to adjust anything, and I swap attachments all the time. It actually improves clearance slightly when using a dozer blade.

[Wyattrrp 59]

Sorry but yes, the 312 has the 6" (smaller) tires and the vertical spindles are 1" longer vs the C-85 having the 8" tires and shorter spindles. The spindle height difference makes up for the tire diameter diffference keeping it level. I just happen to prefer the looks of the larger and Wider tires. Regardless of the tracter staying level. Those 6" tires are rounded vs the wider turf tires being almost square across the tread. Swapping just required removal of the entire spindles by removing the top "C" and letting the entire spindle slide out with tire on the horizontal axle. No need to touch the wheel and hub. Quick swap.