416-8 or 418-A -- Which way should I go??

[dcrage 631]

So back when I bought my 310-8 in 1991, I remember seeing the 400s and 500s setting in that little showroom and on the lot at Mueller Motors in De Soto (or maybe I saw them in the sales brochure) and thinking when I get a lot older and can afford it, I going to buy one of those – Well it’s 20+ years later, my 310-8 is still going strong with 800+ hours (and I am damn proud of it, great tractor), but alas as has been discussed here on several occasions, there aren’t any new 417-As or 520-Hs out there to buy – So now that means I will be looking for “good condition used†if and when I get around to fulfilling my dream of 20 years ago – Well, circumstances have converged where I might have a decision to make; i.e. I could probably afford to buy one of these and a couple of nice looking 400s have come available in my area – Need some of this boards expertise on which way to go – Neither of these tractors will be cheap, but both appear to be pretty good units – So here goes

Tractor #1

416-8 (Onan with 950 hrs) with a 48†deck, an almost new snow plow, Ags, weights, chains and so sort of “electrical accessory plug for rear implements†– I have asked the seller about the Onan and he says no smoke or oil usage – The pictures of the tractor look immaculate – I obviously will need to go see it in person

So how do you as a perspective buyer know if an Onan twin is going to be OK or not???

Tractor #2

418-A (Model # 31-18KE01 with the Kohler Model # of M1806/Spec # 24510 with 875 hrs) with a 42â€Â(??) deck, almost new snow plow, and a hydraulic lift – Tractor has never set outside and has very few nicks and dings – I have seen this tractor and will be going back to drive it around the lot and hopefully run it up and down some hills to check out the Eaton transmission – I have NO experience with hydro transmissions

Do Kohler twins have the same problems that the Onans have?? – I haven’t heard you guys complain about them – I know it would be less expensive to fix if there was a problem – I assume this model of Kohler is NOT one of the splash lubricated system – Does it have internal pressurized lubrication??? – I live on some big hills and don’t want to be ruining an engine

So there you have the contestants – The age and hours on these tractors don’t bother me – They are the same as I have put on my 310-8 – If I get one of these tractors, it will be to use – It would be doing mowing and leaf mulching (steep hills; heavy, heavy leaf loads), hauling up and down these hills, snow removal (that is mostly on flat surfaces although with a bigger tractor I will have to try more of my sub-division road that my 310-8 couldn’t do because of lost traction), road/gravel grading, and hopefully a lot of tilling (got to buy a tiller also) to rehab my yard

Tractor #1 is priced a few $s more than Tractor #2 – In my mind the difference is appropriate for the additional items with Tractor #1 – Neither tractor is going to be a “great dealâ€Â, but on the first glance both have been well maintained and have a lot of life left

What do you guys think??

What are my watch outs??

Would either be a better deal than the other??

[ce318 13]

DC, I have one exp. with WH, I have a 418A with tiller, blower, 42"sd deck and blade. I really like my 418a and have worked it pretty hard in the 90 days I have had it. Mine has a BS 18 ind. V twin, so I cannot help you out with the motor. I really like my WH but if I had to choose just one I would get the 416 just because of the manual trans. Nothing wrong with the auto like mine. I guess both have there pros's and cons. Wish you could buy both. The Auto is real nice for tilling and as I understand it blowing. Since I have only blown leaves with it and not snow. I have used my tiller and it is nice to have an infinet amount of control. Best wishes to you. Chris

[Rollerman 290]

I would vote for both.

My preferances are for the Kohlers & hydros...so to me it would be tuff to beat that 418-A if it has the HYD lift.

I'm not 100% familar with the 418's though, make sure it has an HYD lift & not a toggle operated electric lift.

There were two styles of Eaton hydros...the 700 & 1100.

The 700 model wasn't nearly as heavy duty & used electric lift on some models.

The 1100 is a very strong hydro with true hydraulic lift & will last a long time if maintaned.

The engine would be a Kohler Magnum with pressurized oil system, again good engines.

It was the series 1 KT 17 twins that had the issues.

A 416-8 with an Onan is a nice tractor too & the Onans make a lot of power.

It will have a similar trans as your 310, but stronger with heavier internals.

Manuals don't rob power away from the engine like a hydro can either....putting more of your power to work.

I'm not a big Onan fan...I've always been nervous when I hear the stories about valve seats coming out & you hear about that more with the 20HP engine in the 520's

950 hours is getting up there IMOP...you do hear of them going up to 2000 hours, again if maintaned.

They are both nice tractors & you really can't go wrong with either.

It comes down to if your want the simplicity of an 8 speed or the frills of the hydro.

[Shuboxlover 482]

I have a 520 and LOVE it....BUT....every time I get on it and use it, in the back of my mind I say to myself...."is today the day the valve seat gives up the ghost"? and mine only has 385 hours on it. I love the Onan, it runs SUPER smooth and creates TONS of power!!! I'm sure a good running P216 would be the same. That being said, with the two tractors you have presented, I think I would go with the 418A...I think you would love the hydro and I have never heard anything bad about that twin 18 Kohler!!!

Good luck, and when you get it home post some pics!!!!

[rexman72 210]

good choice if your going with the 418A

I have a 520 and LOVE it....BUT....every time I get on it and use it, in the back of my mind I say to myself...."is today the day the valve seat gives up the ghost"? and mine only has 385 hours on it. I love the Onan, it runs SUPER smooth and creates TONS of power!!! I'm sure a good running P216 would be the same. That being said, with the two tractors you have presented, I think I would go with the 418A...I think you would love the hydro and I have never heard anything bad about that twin 18 Kohler!!!

Good luck, and when you get it home post some pics!!!!

[shallowwatersailor 3,216]

I would go for the 418-A. My Johnny Bucket came attached to a 312A when I bought it used. I have thought of swapping it to my C-105 with the 8-pinion rear axle but the bucket is much easier to work with a hydro. Realizing the weakness of the 4-pinion rear axle and the Eaton 700, I have not worked it very hard. I would LOVE to have the 418-A with the 8-pinion axle and Eaton 1100.

[dcrage 631]

Well it will be a few days before I take and figure out how to post the pictures -- But tonight I bought the 418-A with the 'new' snow/dirt blade -- I called the owner's son this PM to ask about seeing the blade -- So I met him at his father's (the owner of the tractor) house to see the blade -- It really is 'almost' NOS -- The story was that it may have been used to remove the snow from the 50 ft drive 2 or 3 times -- I also saw the yard where the 875 hrs were logged (looks like 875 'easy' hours i.e. smaller, flat, well-maintained yard) -- I then made an offer, rejected, counter offer............anyway he took $100 off his list (it wasn't inexpensive, but it is what I've wanted for quite sometime) -- So I am pretty excited -- Anyway the blade got loaded into the back of my truck; the owner said "pay me with a check", which was really nice of him and off I went to the dealership where the tractor is setting -- The dealer was still there at 6:45, told him I would be picking the tractor up Saturday AM -- Now I need to figure out where to put some of the stuff I have setting in our garage to get this tractor inside -- OK now my 310-8 has a new long lost 'big brother' coming to live with him

[tgranthamfd 29]

congrats!!

[rexman72 210]

good score seems like attachments in my area are getting harder to find

[Horse Fanatic 51]

I would have voted for the 418-A, I think you'll like the hydro, I think personally like them better for every task except for rototilling. Congrats!

[kpinnc 15,725]

Realizing the weakness of the 4-pinion rear axle and the Eaton 700, I have not worked it very hard.

John forgive me if I misunderstood this, but your tractor should have an 8-pinion differential, and 1 and 1/8th axles. The Eaton 700 is potentially a "weak link", but your transaxle is not. If you swapped the 700 for an 1100, you'll have the same rear end that came on the 520-H.

To my knowledge, all Eaton hydros all came with 8-pinion, heavy axled gear boxes. Only the pumps were different between the 700 and 1100- equipped versions. Even the "Work Horse" tractor hydros had the heavy transaxle.

Kevin

[wh500special 2,344]

Dave,

I'm glad you got that tractor! I it's the one I'm thinking it was, I saw it pop up on CL and almost pulled the trigger without even going for a look. For the condition it was said to be in, the price was - in my opinion - very good. In one of my rare moments of self-restraint, I decided to think about it a bit. When I went back to find the ad later it was gone!

Congrats! That looked to be a beautiful machine!

I had a 418-C which was similar to your new machine for a while that I really liked. That series of tractor with the twins really are pretty sweet machines. In fact, I think I prefer them to the 520's since they are a bit more simple.

Good job,

Steve

[can whlvr 994]

good score,so does it have hydro lift,im not sure but isnt the 418-a an exception to the 7series rule,with an 11 series in it,anyway good luck and i bet that big kohler sounds real nice,i would have got the kohler too,too many times ive heard about that onan valve seat problem

[dcrage 631]

Thanks for the comments -- I woke up this AM feeling pretty good about this purchase -- So I guess it was the right thing to do

good score,so does it have hydro lift,im not sure but isnt the 418-a an exception to the 7series rule,with an 11 series in it,anyway good luck and i bet that big kohler sounds real nice,i would have got the kohler too,too many times ive heard about that onan valve seat problem

Don -- Yes it does have a hydro lift and a transmission oil filter; all the literature I look at say it is a Eaton 1100, so it is one of those Wheel Horse "exception to rule" about -A being an Eaton 700

Dave,

I'm glad you got that tractor! I it's the one I'm thinking it was, I saw it pop up on CL and almost pulled the trigger without even going for a look. For the condition it was said to be in, the price was - in my opinion - very good. In one of my rare moments of self-restraint, I decided to think about it a bit. When I went back to find the ad later it was gone!

Good job,

Steve

Steve -- So this was the tractor in Crystal City -- The ad never went away, it only got reposted for the 2nd time last week -- But anyway, I am somewhat 'pleasingly' suprised by your comment about the price -- I figured I was paying a premium for it but I wanted and had the means so what the heck

I will have some more questions about this as time goes on, so talk more later

[Hydro 131]

I have a Hydro and an 8 speed. I have had two Onans and 3 Kohler singles. I prefer the Kohlers because I had an issue with my Onan. I like the versatility of the Hydro.

Good luck with your Kohler Twin! :flags-canada:

[JackC 617]

The 418A was a good choice and I much prefer the hydro over the 8 speed.

I do love the sound of the Onans especially the 20hp.

I would at least run a compression test and have the valves looked at.

The heads should come off and the cylinder and valves inspected.

I think in general people neglect to have the valves checked and serviced resulting in broken rods.

They just run them until they fail.

The Onan engine valves are supposed to be checked every 200 hours.

I believe the Kohlers are every 500 hours.

The engine will take an oil filter if it does not already have one.

Sounds like a great machine.

Good luck.

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

I agree with your choice, although I do have somewhat of a preferance for the 8speed. I just purchased a 417-A this week and although I am only a few days into this thing I think I will be quite pleased with it overall. I have a safer/less sudden catastrophic engine failure feeling about the longivity of the Kohler engine over the Onan.

Enjoy your new work toy, and keep us posted about the performance of the Magnum engine.

Van