oldandred 15 #26 Posted June 30, 2008 Ok Back in 1964 there is a problem getting Kohler K-181 8hp engines and your trying to sell a tractor in the market place with a electric start Kohler in this horse power range. You need 421 electric start Kohlers but can only get a model K-161 7hp ... you buy the K-161's to meet the demanded need. Now legaly you can not sell a Model 854 because the number "8" denotes the horse power and the true horse power of the unit is only 7 (Kinda' false advertising ). Shoot for 50 bucks ya' get some stickers made that say "754" and your back in the tractor buisness! Now here's what gets me ....... a 754 I can find no problem .... the same with a Senior or lever steer BUT every time I hunt a 854 down a try to purchase the model 854 some thing happends and I come home empty handed. <_< 1) A guys has a real nice 854 for sale and I come back with the money and he has a migraine head ache and will not answer the door. He then sells it to a buddy because he thinks I am no longer interested. 2) Another guy lists he has one for sale and several e-mails get sent back and forth but when it came time to sell .... no seller or tractor. 3) Good lookin' 854 on ebay ..... high bidder is a first time bidder .... I figure I got it in the bag now ... WRONG! First time bidder was a much higher bidder then I was. Wild Bill in Richmond, Va. you havent ask i n the right places yet hummmmmmmm ?????? stickers for $50.00 hum mine cost me 3.00 each and I have a bunch waiting for the next ten 754s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #27 Posted June 30, 2008 Wish I had something you wanted!!!! I don't have ANYTHING that takes ONE quart! LOL That could be arranged AMSOIL I mean! Soooooo Are you gonna be at Kelly's If so I can hook ya up! Be a shame to wait till next year show! Then youll prolly want some more rooster rings! Duke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BPjunk 184 #28 Posted June 30, 2008 But the question I have is, if there is no company documentation that they were built, how did we come up with a figure of 421 produced? Lets not get this wrong as far as documentation from Wheel Horse, yes there is not any manuals or advertisments for the model 854 but Wheel Horse does know how many were manufactured. (i.e. 421) Now early Wheel Horse model serial number listing (how many of each model were made) was done by hand writting each model in a ledger with different color ink pens. This very time consumingand take a long time to count the numbers of each model. Now remember this was done when only a few models were made. Wild Bill in Richmond, Va. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bambooheels 0 #29 Posted July 1, 2008 just curious, i just bought a 753, it seems all original and the guy i bought it from is the original owner however it had a 8 hp kohler, any thoughts, :whistle: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #30 Posted July 1, 2008 If it's a 753 and it has a K-181, then it's not original. Not too much more to add than that. :whistle: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bambooheels 0 #31 Posted July 1, 2008 :whistle: i dont know about that when i was at the show even mr. pond said that it was possible. he said that if they had extra engines at a cetain time they would use them on other series. who knows? all i know is that the owner had original sales slip still. he would not allow me to have it but i seen it, he also swore from hell to high water that engine was never replaced because it sat in his barnb for the last 30 years. nothing is ever easy with these questions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #32 Posted July 1, 2008 I'd say a "powered up" model would be easier to swallow than a "powered down" model. But it's all opinion and conjecture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bambooheels 0 #33 Posted July 1, 2008 i would agree, however i like to stay original, i would throw a 7 hp on her but if it actually came with an 8 then im keeping the 8! i evenn spoke to bill jenkins and he pretty much mirrord what pond said, they used whatver was around to throw on these tractors at the time :whistle: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #34 Posted July 1, 2008 I am almost positive (99%) that the K-181 8hp engine did not exist until 1964. A 753 was 7hp, no matter how you look at it, but that doesn't mean that a dealer could not have made the switch. Perhaps the original K-161 blew up and was replaced under warranty with the newer and bigger 8hp K-181. :whistle: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #35 Posted July 1, 2008 i would agree, however i like to stay original, i would throw a 7 hp on her but if it actually came with an 8 then im keeping the 8! i evenn spoke to bill jenkins and he pretty much mirrord what pond said, they used whatver was around to throw on these tractors at the time We have seen that with tires, but never engines. There were a few cases when leftover engines were used up on the next years model, but you can't build a tractor with an engine that didn't exist until one year later. Regardless of what you actually have, you could always just change the I.D. plate on the blower housing and leave the K-181 on there. :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bambooheels 0 #36 Posted July 1, 2008 :whistle: thats what i was thinking in regards to the engine plate, if you know anyone that has 2 of them please keep me in mind. as i rarely see these darn 7hp around. thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #37 Posted July 1, 2008 Regardless of what you actually have, you could always just change the I.D. plate on the blower housing and leave the K-181 on there. Pity the poor guy rebuilding the engine in another 20 years with incorrect ID on it! I'm sure it's been done many a time, in fact, if I'd have gotten the latest K-321 done, complete with replacement housing..... no, I seriously doubt I'd taken the time to change the ID plate on the housing! :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #38 Posted July 1, 2008 THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The blower housing had rusted, broken, whatever, and it's actually a 7hp engine with a used, replacement, housing! Hey, anything is possible while you're brainstorming what MIGHT have happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BPjunk 184 #39 Posted July 1, 2008 i would agree, however i like to stay original, i would throw a 7 hp on her but if it actually came with an 8 then im keeping the 8! i evenn spoke to bill jenkins and he pretty much mirrord what pond said, they used whatver was around to throw on these tractors at the time OK This is most likely what happend. A customer bought the 1963 model 753 in 1964 and wanted a 8hp engine. The dealer installed a hp K-181 on the frame rails of the 753. It was not unusal for a dealer to have left over stock tractors and to make a sale the customer got what they wanted a bigger engine. Read up on the '500' SPECIAL as a lot of customers did not want recoil start so a electric start Tecumseh was installed at the dealer to sell the '500' SPECIAL. Wild Bill in Richmond, Va. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buzz 502 #40 Posted July 1, 2008 BUT every time I hunt a 854 down a try to purchase the model 854 some thing happends and I come home empty handed. <_< 1) A guys has a real nice 854 for sale and I come back with the money and he has a migraine head ache and will not answer the door. He then sells it to a buddy because he thinks I am no longer interested. 2) Another guy lists he has one for sale and several e-mails get sent back and forth but when it came time to sell .... no seller or tractor. 3) Good lookin' 854 on ebay ..... high bidder is a first time bidder .... I figure I got it in the bag now ... WRONG! First time bidder was a much higher bidder then I was. It seems to me there was one in PA that the seller wanted out of his yard before Christmas so you didn't bid on it. It looked sorta like a St. Bernard with a keg........ I think it went for $71.00 to some guy in South Jersey :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chevelletown 37 #41 Posted July 1, 2008 Here is some more to add to the confusion. I got a call from a local Wheel Horse buddy tonight, he asked me over to check out his latest purchase. He picked up a 854 at a garage sale from the original owner (only paid $50 ). Since this topic was fresh on my mind I looked a the engine ID tag, this is what it said: K161S Spec. #28626E Tractor ser# was 47951. The engine did not look like it had been replaced :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linen beige 15 #42 Posted July 1, 2008 Lets not get this wrong as far as documentation from Wheel Horse, yes there is not any manuals or advertisments for the model 854 but Wheel Horse does know how many were manufactured. (i.e. 421) Now early Wheel Horse model serial number listing (how many of each model were made) was done by hand writting each model in a ledger with different color ink pens. This very time consumingand take a long time to count the numbers of each model. Now remember this was done when only a few models were made. Wild Bill in Richmond, Va. Thanks Bill, I definitely take internal ledger books to be documentation! I guess we should say there is no literature on them then? (And I know you meant to say model SEVEN fifty four.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,411 #43 Posted July 1, 2008 Bill, do you know who has the ledgers? Presumably, if they were all handwritten, there would also be production dates available? Or at least some speculation. I've always been curious as to where my Suburban fell in production. Ser. #33445... and I would like to know about my 603 as well, but I don't have that one memorized. Any ideas as to whether we can find that out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #45 Posted July 1, 2008 Here is some more to add to the confusion. I got a call from a local Wheel Horse buddy tonight, he asked me over to check out his latest purchase. He picked up a 854 at a garage sale from the original owner (only paid $50 ). Since this topic was fresh on my mind I looked a the engine ID tag, this is what it said: K161S Spec. #28626E Tractor ser# was 47951. The engine did not look like it had been replaced Hmmmmm...... Sounds like WH might have forgot to change the belt guard decal. This ought to put a new twist in it! :dunno: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eriks Red horse herd 120 #46 Posted August 1, 2008 Just found some old papers in a box from an auction of an old wheel horse dealer out of indiana. some facts about the 754. It comes from the Radio Eqipment Company Inc. Dated May 20th 1964. It says! TO ALL WHEEL HORSE DEALERS: we have beenable to procure about 300 wheel horse tractors built for a "MAY DAZE" fast moving cleanup sale. " Advertised list $619.95. These tractors, numbered 754, carry the 7 hp kohler engine with electric start set in this year's 854 frame. You will remember this engine and electrical system as the one that powered last year's 753. This model can set competition to wondering what happened to tractor sales. It compares to their models that range from $670.00 to $810.00. We expect these to be gone in 10 days. so get in on the mid season blast at competition. Contact us or your salesman. Quotas are allotted to each territory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linen beige 15 #47 Posted August 1, 2008 Just found some old papers in a box from an auction of an old wheel horse dealer out of indiana. some facts about the 754. It comes from the Radio Eqipment Company Inc. Dated May 20th 1964. It says! TO ALL WHEEL HORSE DEALERS: we have beenable to procure about 300 wheel horse tractors built for a "MAY DAZE" fast moving cleanup sale. " Advertised list $619.95. These tractors, numbered 754, carry the 7 hp kohler engine with electric start set in this year's 854 frame. You will remember this engine and electrical system as the one that powered last year's 753. This model can set competition to wondering what happened to tractor sales. It compares to their models that range from $670.00 to $810.00. We expect these to be gone in 10 days. so get in on the mid season blast at competition. Contact us or your salesman. Quotas are allotted to each territory. :group: And only your second post! Master. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linen beige 15 #48 Posted August 1, 2008 Hmmmmm...... Sounds like WH might have forgot to change the belt guard decal. This ought to put a new twist in it! But was the belt guard original? :whistle: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMESS 24 #49 Posted August 1, 2008 Erik, THAT is a FANTASTIC piece of information! THANK YOU and B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CasualObserver 3,411 #50 Posted August 1, 2008 Erik, that's awesome! Do you have a way to scan that and would you? If so, please add it to the literature gallery! B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites