ohio704 0 #1 Posted May 6, 2011 Hi guys, im trying to get the old 854 started. I've rebuilt & cleaned the carb, replaced the fuel pump, fuel lines, and spark plug. It starts right up on starter fluid then dies after the fluid is burned up. I confirmed that the carb is getting gas by checking the hose. Also the carb float and needle seem to be working correctly and there is no leakage from the carb. The choke is on and its on open throttle... but it just keeps cranking. Also, the battery I'm using does have full charge as well. Any suggestions? :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 16,333 #2 Posted May 6, 2011 If it will start and run on starter fluid, then dies when it is all burned, the problem is that you are not getting any gas from the carburetor. In the rebuilding process, did you soak the carburetor in carb cleaner? Did you pull the main needle valve out and make sure that all of it's tiny holes are clear, and that the inside of it is clear? You must be able to pass air through all the holes, and through the tube, from the top holes to the bottom holes. Is the main jet (that's the part that the large needle valve seats into) open? You should be able to see light through the hole when the needle is out and the bowl is off. If that is clogged, no gas is going to get from the bowl to the throat and into the engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,546 #3 Posted May 6, 2011 Any suggestions? Yep, listen to the advice of others on this forum, they should be along shortly. Just a thought, it would have been perfectly OK to keep this question with your earlier topic. There's a lot of useful information there that will help somebody understand where you've already been with this machine, and keeping things together will keep us from having to flip back and forth between the two. No big deal, just my 2 cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,133 #4 Posted May 6, 2011 few things to check .is the main needle completely clear? .main needle and idle initial adj. Ok? .was the carb soaked long enough? sounds like carb is not clean enough somewhere or not initial adjustment close enough. your k181 manual has info on adjustments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #5 Posted May 6, 2011 Ok guys I think you are definitely right about the carb being the problem. Even after cranking it for so long the bowl was nearly dry when I took it off. I did clean the carburetor quite thoroughly during the rebuild. The needle positions are straight out of the manual so those shouldn't be the problem. I just pulled the carb off. I consulted the rebuild guide but I think something is not right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,133 #6 Posted May 6, 2011 sounds like fuel pump if the bowls not getting gas.or you have a blockage somewhere between the pump and bowl. Is the pump pushing gas out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #7 Posted May 6, 2011 sounds like fuel pump if the bowls not getting gas.or you have a blockage somewhere between the pump and bowl. Is the pump pushing gas out? I checked the hose between the pump and the carb, fuel is coming out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorts 182 #9 Posted May 6, 2011 I don't want to sound like a broken record but did you replace the gasket between the carb and engine? disassemble the carb and soak in carb cleaner or laquer thinner, blow out with compressedm air pay special attention to all of the small passages. before you reassemble the carb use an aerosol can of carb/choke cleaner with the straw installed and blow out idle and main jet orfices. when you blow through the idle mixture needle hole you should see cleaner spray out of the pinhole next to the throttle blade and also at the pickup in the float bowl. when you spray up thru the pickup in the floatbowl you should get fuel out of the orfices in the venturi area,"the narrow passage between the choke and throttle blades". reassemble the carb set the idle screw on the throttleshaft so that the throttle blade is just open a crack, install the needle valves untill the lightly seat or are completely in and then open them 2 turns, install the needle and seat and float, adjust the float to spec both inverted and setting on the needle and hanging to allow fuel into the carb. reinstall the carb the engine should start and run, you will have to play with it to keep it running while you adjust the mixture screws, get it to starunning at mid speed then slowly start bringing it back to idle while adjusting the idle mixture and speed screws alternatly, first the idle stop to slow down the speed then the mixture in and out to smoothest idle then the idle stop keep adjusting untill you get a good idle, and throttle response,then take the tractor for a ride and see how it runs at speed, if you make any hispeed mixtureadjustments for power you may have to go back thru the idle adjustments. I despize using ether in any engine, get a pump type oilcan or squeeze bottle with a small straw filled with gas and use that instead, it's much more engine friendly. did you change the ignition points and set them to spec yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #10 Posted May 6, 2011 Guys GOT IT TO RUN!!! and it ran well it even idled!!!! The Problem i found was this... on closer inspection both the float valve and the pin that holds the float were a little too big, which prevented the float and valve from moving freely. Only if you were looking closely could you tell. I think they are for a larger K-series engine. So I swapped in my old valve and pin which were in good condition anyway.. and it started right up! I'm a little pissed at the ebay seller who listed that the rebuild kit was compatible with the K181. The seals and float all fit, but still he should have sent the right valve and float pin One issue I did have, was that a little fuel was coming out the front of the carb when it was running. Im thinking adjusting the tab on the float?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorts 182 #11 Posted May 6, 2011 :wh: cool super job, like the man told me look at it it will tell you what it wants. their should be a gasket between the gold seat and carb body or you will have a flooding situation. install the needle and float with the carb upside down the float should be paralell with the carb body, bend the tab that contacts the needle to adjust, flip the carb back upright and the float should drop to where it would almost touch the floatbowl, reassemble and go thru the adjustment procedure again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #12 Posted May 6, 2011 cool super job, like the man told me look at it it will tell you what it wants. their should be a gasket between the gold seat and carb body or you will have a flooding situation. install the needle and float with the carb upside down the float should be paralell with the carb body, bend the tab that contacts the needle to adjust, flip the carb back upright and the float should drop to where it would almost touch the floatbowl, reassemble and go thru the adjustment procedure again. Yup adjusting the float tab did the trick...no fuel leaking out the carb anymore One thing I have noticed is that a little smoke is coming from the alternator/generator when running..... and from the top of the engine after it is turned off. The light smoke continues for about 2 minutes. Any ideas? Also I just want to confirm something... the battery terminal coming from the near engine block is ground (-) right ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,133 #13 Posted May 6, 2011 thats great that you got the carb worked out as far as the smoke goes, could be numerous things. guess some investigating is in order. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorts 182 #14 Posted May 7, 2011 what does the smoke smell like, burned oil, unburned fuel or electrical? battery ground should go to the engine with a good jumper to the chassis, battery+ should go to the starter solinoid + terminal and also pick up a + wire to the harness there. make sure that both ends of the battery cables are clean and tight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #15 Posted May 7, 2011 what does the smoke smell like, burned oil, unburned fuel or electrical? battery ground should go to the engine with a good jumper to the chassis, battery+ should go to the starter solinoid + terminal and also pick up a + wire to the harness there. make sure that both ends of the battery cables are clean and tight its definitely not unburnt fuel.... I'll double check the electrical...but i found it weird that the generator was smoking a little, plus it was very hot. I have not changed the oil since I got the tractor... the oil in the crankcase was topped-up and clean...but im not sure how old it is. I think tomorrow i'll shoot a youtube video of the 854 in action, to help you guys get a clearer idea of what im talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #16 Posted May 7, 2011 Ohh.. one thing to add, I did add some Seafoam to the gas and in the crankcase, following the directions on the bottle. Could that explain the smoking from the top of the engine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #17 Posted May 7, 2011 I would have the generator checked before running the tractor anymore. If it is getting very hot like you say. It may still be repairable and there is no use burning it completely up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #18 Posted May 7, 2011 AS far as the smoke from the top of the engine-- It could be anything from a dead mouse to a leaky head gasket. remove shrouds and blowout dead critters. BE CAREFULL not to twist off head bolts. Kohler smoked rat yUUUUUm yum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #19 Posted May 7, 2011 I would have the generator checked before running the tractor anymore. If it is getting very hot like you say. It may still be repairable and there is no use burning it completely up. i agree... where do you suggest i take it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #20 Posted May 7, 2011 A automotive/ electrical shop with a decent rep in your area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #21 Posted May 7, 2011 AS far as the smoke from the top of the engine-- It could be anything from a dead mouse to a leaky head gasket. remove shrouds and blowout dead critters. BE CAREFULL not to twist off head bolts. Kohler smoked rat yUUUUUm yum LOL yummy indeed ... Yup, I will open up the head to check whats up... while I'm at it, might as well change the head gasket... it might even boost compression :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cody 277 #22 Posted May 7, 2011 I believe i see the issue you previously had with it not getting gas, by the photo you posted it appears that you have changed the needle and not the seat. With the rebuild kits the needle and seat are different than the original so both must be changed at the same time, as you see in the photo the new needle is quite a bit smaller in diameter than the old seat. The old seat could also be the reason for the fuel coming out of the front of the carb because there is a small red gasket that goes between the carb and seat. that gasket could be bad and allowing gas to leak out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #23 Posted May 7, 2011 I believe i see the issue you previously had with it not getting gas, by the photo you posted it appears that you have changed the needle and not the seat. With the rebuild kits the needle and seat are different than the original so both must be changed at the same time, as you see in the photo the new needle is quite a bit smaller in diameter than the old seat. The old seat could also be the reason for the fuel coming out of the front of the carb because there is a small red gasket that goes between the carb and seat. that gasket could be bad and allowing gas to leak out. Thanks for the reply cody, You are right about me not changing the seat , the old one was in good shape so i didnt change it. However in general the rebuild kit was not great. The float and pin were not moving freely no matter how I adjusted or lubricated them. I think that was the issue that caused the leak... So really my "rebuild" only consisted of a cleaning, and replacing the rotted seals and gaskets. I reused the old float, valve, and seat, which were in good condition anyway. Not ideal i know, but the carb works perfectly now. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohio704 0 #24 Posted May 7, 2011 AS far as the smoke from the top of the engine-- It could be anything from a dead mouse to a leaky head gasket. remove shrouds and blowout dead critters. BE CAREFULL not to twist off head bolts. Kohler smoked rat yUUUUUm yum I will open up the head as soon as the gasket comes in the mail sometime next week. But im curious... is it even possible for something to get in there? I cant think of any opening big enough for something of that size to get in. :thumbs: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,285 #25 Posted May 8, 2011 I agree with the above about the starter. I would not use it again and try taking it to a good NAPA...they should have someone they send starter/generators out to to be rebuilt. No way it should be getting hot enough to smoke. As far as critters...you would be surprised at how little of a hole or crack a mouse or bees or wasps need. Could be grass and dust also. :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites