Raider 10 wont move

[hemidarts 0]

Hi everyone. I have a 1969 raider 10. She is a good little tractor. I was plowing the other day, and now she wont go forward or reverse. I was backing up in the snow, i put the clutch or brake in. I put it in neutral. I went to put it back in 1st and the tractor wont move. I have tried it in every gear, and the tractor wont move. I tore the back wheel off, and the rear pulley pulled right off, im not sure if that is normal. The shaft that the rear pulley goes on still has the key in it, but the shaft spins forwards and backwards with ease. I dont know whats wrong or where to begin. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your help!

Matt

[pfrederi 18,895]

The pulley usually doesn't come right off...but maybe you were lucky. What does the keyway inside the pulley look like.

Shift the transmission into a gear and then try manually turning the input shaft. (It will spin freely in neutral...in gear not so easy and the rear axles should start to move (very slowly!!)

[Anglo Traction 761]

Hi . I'm not an expert on all Trannys, but There are many here who are.

I believe you have a 4 speed unidrive model 5071 (the include Reverse as 1 of the speeds).

If your Input shaft rotates freely while in a selected gear, you may have either damaged the Input Shaft/gear or sheared the Woodruff Key on the Reduction Gear/Brake Shaft.

It look's like whatever the problem is, it's Internal.

Can you also rotate the Brake Drum while it is in a selected gear with no effect?.

Do you have a Service Manual for the Transmission?.

If you want to proceed and repair it yourself, there are plenty of people here prepared to help you through the process.

Regards.

[hemidarts 0]

The pulley usually doesn't come right off...but maybe you were lucky. What does the keyway inside the pulley look like.

Shift the transmission into a gear and then try manually turning the input shaft. (It will spin freely in neutral...in gear not so easy and the rear axles should start to move (very slowly!!)

The keyway inside the pulley looks ok. It does not look damaged.

With the tranny in gear i can still turn the turn the input shaft very easily.

Before i tore it apart i jacked it up and put it in neutral. The wheels did not spin. I put it in forward and reverse gear. The wheels did spin in both directions. I hope that is a good sign? :thumbs:

[hemidarts 0]

Hi . I'm not an expert on all Trannys, but There are many here who are.

I believe you have a 4 speed unidrive model 5071 (the include Reverse as 1 of the speeds).

If your Input shaft rotates freely while in a selected gear, you may have either damaged the Input Shaft/gear or sheared the Woodruff Key on the Reduction Gear/Brake Shaft.

It look's like whatever the problem is, it's Internal.

Can you also rotate the Brake Drum while it is in a selected gear with no effect?.

Do you have a Service Manual for the Transmission?.

If you want to proceed and repair it yourself, there are plenty of people here prepared to help you through the process.

Regards.

Hi and thanks for the warm welcome!

I am not sure of the model number of my tranny, but it does have 3 forward gears and 1 reverse like you mentioned. It also has a high and a low.

I am able to rotate the brake drum and it has almost a clicking sound. I can feel it turn every notch. It does that weather it is in gear or neutral, it feels the same both ways. I only had 1 side of the tractor jacked up, so the other tire was on the ground. That could be why, i am not sure.

I have nothing to help me with fixing this tractor. I have never owned one before this, and i am very new to working on them. I am hopeing this is not a very difficult problem to fix.

Is there anyone if the Akron,Ohio area that works on these?

[Anglo Traction 761]

Ok, so you have a 6 (fwd)speed Tranny. My mistake Model 5071 is correct.

Your Tractor Model Number should be 1-6041 if it's a '69'.

[hemidarts 0]

Nothing to worry about, thanks for your help.

my model # is 1-6041

my serial # is 545535

hope this helps

[Duff 206]

:thumbs: !

I'm no expert, either, but is it possible that even though the shift lever appears to be moving freely it's actually not moving anything inside the transmission? Sometimes the pin that holds the shift lever in place breaks off or loosens up. One way to check is to try to pull the shift lever straight up. If it comes out in your hand, the pin is the issue. We can then go to work on the fix with you.

I'm sure more seasoned members will continue to help you diagnose the problem. The good news is tearing into the tranny is not as daunting a task as it sounds, and there are a bunch of us ready to help you through it if it comes to that!

Duff :thumbs:

[hemidarts 0]

That is a good idea to check the lever. I will check that tomorrow. I do know this, i tried putting it in gear with out the clutch, and it would grind a little bit, but then felt like it went in gear. i have no idea whats going on! :thumbs:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Make sure you check the woodruff keys on both rear wheel hubs/axles before you do anything too drastic.

:thumbs:

[dgjks6 8]

I am by no means an expert, but I have been though a few of these.

I am in the Akron area. I try to walk you through it step by step - or - if you can get it off you can bring it by and I can take a look and give you my thoughts.

or if you want a pro - take it to Bath Tractor - they aer they experts. A guy and his son own it and the father knows everything about wheel horses.

[hemidarts 0]

Thank you TT. I will try and check those. I am not even going to act like i know how to check them, could you explain that for me please?

dgjks6 Thanks for the info. I might just take you up on your offer if i cant make something work!

[Horse'n Around 22]

Thank you TT. I will try and check those. I am not even going to act like i know how to check them, could you explain that for me please?

dgjks6 Thanks for the info. I might just take you up on your offer if i cant make something work!

When you look at the hub in the center of each rear wheel, you will see a circle that is a little over an inch in diameter(1 1/8 on 6 and 8 speeds, 1" on 4 speed transmissions)....that is the exposed end of the axle.The hub is the rest of what is visible inside the hole in the center of the wheel, it will probably be painted red like the rest of the tractor which will contrast with the white wheel. With the tractor running and in gear you will be able to look at the axle and see if it is turning inside of the hub.If the axle in the center is turning and the hub is not then you will know that the woodruff key is sheared.If neither one is turning, then you know the problem is else where. The same thing can be done to see if the key is sheared within the input shaft pulley on the right side of the transmission. The belt that runs from the engine runs back to this pulley. If this key is sheared the pulley will just turn outside of the shaft and because of this,it will not be able to rotate the input shaft which drives the rest of the transmission/driveline.

John

[stevasaurus 23,447]

First... After reading this thread several times, and trying to figure out what you are actually trying to say with what is wrong:

1st do not do any thing drastic...like tearing everything apart.

2nd check the shifter...like mentioned above.

3rd set the whole rear end up on jacks and see if when you turn one wheel in one direction the other one goes in the opposite direction. (in neutral) that is a good sign and says that your differential is working.

4th this will also tell you if the woodruff keys are OK.

5th do you have your belt guard on?? and is the belt OK and on correctly??

6th you should be able to turn the drive pulley freely in any gear by hand, but the wheels should turn also. The gear ratio makes that possible.

7th answer these questions...let us know what you find. If we have to tear into it...be not afraid... I think it is one of the above. :thumbs:

[mavfreak 11]

First... :thumbs:

[hemidarts 0]

First... After reading this thread several times, and trying to figure out what you are actually trying to say with what is wrong:

1st do not do any thing drastic...like tearing everything apart.

2nd check the shifter...like mentioned above.

3rd set the whole rear end up on jacks and see if when you turn one wheel in one direction the other one goes in the opposite direction. (in neutral) that is a good sign and says that your differential is working.

4th this will also tell you if the woodruff keys are OK.

5th do you have your belt guard on?? and is the belt OK and on correctly??

6th you should be able to turn the drive pulley freely in any gear by hand, but the wheels should turn also. The gear ratio makes that possible.

7th answer these questions...let us know what you find. If we have to tear into it...be not afraid... I think it is one of the above.

Ok I have just checked a couple things.

1. The shifter is solidy on there, it aint pulling off.

2. When i turn the drive side wheel, where the pulley is at, it does turn the other side wheel in neutral. If i turn the other side wheel, the drive side wheel does not turn at all. Does that mean anything?

I had my belt gaurd on, i had just replaced the belt. Maybe it was not on right?

I put my pulley back on the shaft, and turned it while the tractor was in gear. Both wheels turned.

So i have no idea where i am now. I will wait for you fine gentleman to give me some more advice.

Thank you to everyone! :thumbs:

[hemidarts 0]

Also i dont know if this matters or not, but i just put the wheel back on it, and i put the tractor on the ground. With the tractor in gear and both wheels on the ground, i can spin the drive pulley very easily. and the tractor does not move. Hope that helps.

[stevasaurus 23,447]

It bothered me when you said...with the tractor rear wheels up off the ground and in neutral...when you turn the drivers side tire the other tire rotated in the opposite direction...but when you turned the passenger side the drivers side did not rotate. I decided to go out in the garage and check mine. No mater which side I turned, the other side rotates in the opposite direction. So there is something wrong there. One thing that would do that is the pinions in the differential are not in opposite positions.

At this point, I would send a PM to dgiks6 (by clicking on his name) and see if you guys can get together. He is one of the guys that always helps in the transmission section. If you do end up tearing into that trans, we can walk you through it. Here is a thread of what it looks like inside...let us know.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19680

[hemidarts 0]

Ok thank you for that picture!

I went back out and looked at the other side wheel. I noticed something odd.

If you are sitting on the tractor, your left side with the brake, that wheel has key sticking out of it at the shaft. Maybe this is why it wont spin the other wheel? I have taken pictures of both sides. The first 4 are of the left side and the key, the last 3 are of the right or drive side wheel and you can see it is perfectly flat. I hope this is the problem.

[stevasaurus 23,447]

Hot Dam...there you go...easy fix. There is a screw with a lock nut on the hub, that must have worked loose. If you need another key, TORO has them...take the old key with you and they can match it up. :drool:

[wheelhorse656 20]

Hot Dam...there you go...easy fix. There is a screw with a lock nut on the hub, that must have worked loose. If you need another key, TORO has them...take the old key with you and they can match it up.

you local hardware store might have them for a little bit cheper bought my last one a home depot. :thumbs:

[hemidarts 0]

Ok so all i have to do is take that key out of the axle or shaft?

I have never had one of these apart, so i guess i am asking if there is anything special i need to do to take it apart or put it back together?

Oh and thank you to everyone who helped me, you guys are great! :thumbs:

[mavfreak 11]

Ok so all i have to do is take that key out of the axle or shaft?

I have never had one of these apart, so i guess i am asking if there is anything special i need to do to take it apart or put it back together?

Oh and thank you to everyone who helped me, you guys are great!

NO special tool needed here other than the hub may hang up some. Try to pull the key out with a pair of pliers first and then the hub should slide off. I don't think yours will hang up any cause you already worked it lose. You may want to pull off the tire first to make it lighter.

[stevasaurus 23,447]

Like Heath said...take off the tire first. May need a vise grip pliers and tap with a hammer to get that key out. Inspect the axle key slot and the slot in the hub. Loosen the lock nut and back out the screw a little. Put the key in and place the hub on flush with the end of the axle. Tighten the screw and then tighten the lock nut. remount tire and off you go. :thumbs:

[dgjks6 8]

If you have not figured it out yet, I have a trans in my basement and I can take step by step pics of what you need to do.

And it amazes me how often TT is right. :thumbs: