REPLACEMENT ENGINES QUESTION!

[repairman 7]

WILL THE PTO ENGINE ASSEMBLY (TRANS BELT PULLEY AND OUTER MULE DRIVE) FROM

THE WHEEL HORSE 18HP BRIGGS ENGINES

WORK ON THE Shaft size: 1" diameter x 2-7/8" L THIS IS THE SIZE SHAFT ON THE

GREY HOUND 13 HP HARBOR FREIGHT ENGINES WILL THIS INTERCHANGE?

OR DOES ANYONE HAVE SOME SPECS ON THIS ITEM?

[VinsRJ 721]

If the shaft demensions are the same it should work. The thing to keep in mind with the HF motors is the pistons are laid over which can cause under hood issues and belt guard issues.

As for the motors themselves I can't say enough about them. I have two 6.5hp HF Blue Clones (GX200 Honda based) and luv them. One is stock and the other is modded, both run strong and the modded one has taken a beat'n with no issues.

[can whlvr 991]

i havnt done a clone but a real honda,the honda shaft flared larger near the block so i had to grind a chamfer on the pto,i used a dremel and a vice,i spun the pto by hand and held the dremel on the correct angle,it worked great,maybe the engine u get will be straight shaft

[repairman 7]

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT SIZE THE PTO DRIVE PULLEYS ARE OF THE K-SERIES MOTORS ARE THEY 1" 1/8 OR DO THEY VARY FROM 8HP - 14HP ?

[racinfool40 202]

kohler 8's 1 in shaft 10-12-14-16 1-1/8 shafts for Wheel Horse and I think the Briggs were 1" shaft>>

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

The main drive pulley and the PTO pulley inner bearing race (some call it a "bushing") are the two parts that need to be 1" ID.

You will need to make sure the PTO side of the engine has the correct holes for mounting the top pivot bracket for the PTO "hoop".

[repairman 7]

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELP :thumbs:

[Docwheelhorse 2,561]

I can't say for sure... but I doubt the harbor freight motors have any type of thrust bearing to take the side load of the bail pushing the PTO into the clutch face. Briggs didn't have them either and that was the reason for the steel plate and the drive pulley with the needle bearing on the side against the engine block. The Harbor Freight motors seem to run good and I guess for the price I would chance it---but longevity may be an issue.

Tony

[can whlvr 991]

i agree with tony,i would question longevity,dont expect it to last like a kohler,im on my 2nd honda 13hp pull starts,i get ten years then toss them,and thats a true honda,but im not saying its wrong to do what u have to do to get her going,i put a 5.5 honda in my 308-8 for a while till i got the bigger honda,i like that no batterys,soliniods,starters wiring key switches,but i have no lights,next one will be key start and pull start

[tarcoleo 119]

Done an 11hp Honda in a C-111 with pto thrust bearing and a HF 13hp Honda clone

in a C-81 without thrust bearing. Had to relieve the hoods but otherwise pretty

straight forward. Both engines have ball bearings on both ends of the cranks so

I'm not worried that the second installation doesn't have the external thrust bearing.

Tom in RI

[VinsRJ 721]

HF clones are exact copes of the equivalent Honda. Cast iron bores, ball bearing crankshafts, parts even interchange. The only issue IMO are the non-adjustable carbs, which can be worked around via the racing go kart industry.

[repairman 7]

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-hp-ohv-hor...gine-66555.html

from here you can look at the manual it gives a break down of parts does anyone

know what the charge output is for this engine I don't see it anywhere here.

I've been a life long Kohler lover but the straight truth about them is there very costly

to rebuild difficult to find parts for finicky in various weather conditions and there not

the best to mow 3+ acres with.there best use is level ground pulling a plow or pushing

a blade.

I rescued a 1973 8 4sp that is near mint all decals orig paint flawless dash and steering

wheel it is missing the 8hp K I want to try one of these new engines on it but I don't

want to modify the hood will they bolt up with out metal re-work?

and what is the charge output? :banghead:

[sscotsman 132]

HF clones are exact copes of the equivalent Honda. Cast iron bores, ball bearing crankshafts, parts even interchange. The only issue IMO are the non-adjustable carbs, which can be worked around via the racing go kart industry.

Not *exact* copies..

its well known that the quality of the clones is not nearly as good as the quality of the originals..yes, many (perhaps all) parts match because the parts that are cloned are the same size and shape..but the quality control isnt nearly up to the level of the real Honda engines..

Also, most people probably know this, but perhaps some dont..

so, for educational purposes, I think it needs to be said..

these Honda clones are *illegally made*!

it is theft of Honda's intellectual property..pure and simple..

sometimes people say the clones are somehow licensed by Honda..I highly doubt that is true..(I have seen zero evidence that it is true.)

and there is much evidence that it is not true.. quote from another recent thread from mytractor forum:

Generally Honda parts will work, however DO NOT tell a Honda dealer you need a part for your Honda clone as they have been instructed by Honda NOT to sell a part if they know it's going on a clone.

source: http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=168091

clones licensed by Honda?? no..I dont think so.

and see this link for a story about Chinese companys cloning *entire cars*!!

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1029301...-the-honda-cr-v

also highly illegal..but (so far) the cars are only made and sold in China..Honda tries to fight it, but there isnt much they can do..

IMO, if you buy and use one of these Harbor Freight Honda clones, you are supporting an illegal industry and hurting the companys who put all the time, money and resources to develope the excellent original product..If you worked at Ford, you wouldnt be too happy if your neighbors were buying and using illegally cloned Ford cars made in China..this is the exact same thing..you might not know anyone personally who works at Honda..but you are hurting them all the same..probably even contributing to jobs being lost..(lots of Americans work for Honda too.) you might think "but im just one person buying just one engine, what harm can that really do?" but multiply that by thousands of times, and you become part of the problem..

(If it was a Chinese engine *not* illegally cloned from a Honda, but an independant design, (like the new LCT engines) thats a much better moral position..not much different buying that engine than buying a real Honda..but im only talking about the Honda clones specifically..and the Harbor Freight engines are the Honda clones.)

Not to mention, IMO putting a cheap junky chinese engine in a Wheel Horse just kills the soul of the machine..but thats another issue.

you dont have to agree with that one! I perhaps romanticize these old machines (and the bygone America they represent) more than most..but you really cant argue against the illegal cloning issue..and the "Cheap junk from China" issue is a lot more than just engines..people's health, and even lives, are being put at risk, all in the name of "saving money":

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Ariens/rant.html

Scot

[repairman 7]

Well I don't want to bring this country to its knees by purchasing a re-pop engine

all I want to do is give life back to a Horse as cost effectively as possible without a

sacrifice to function. and those other engines that were mentioned are no longer supported by Stens,parts for those are an issue and cost is high per pony! :thumbs:

[sscotsman 132]

How hard is it to keep the old original engines going?

(im not asking that sarcastically..like "come on how hard can it be)

im actually asking..

I know Kohler parts are expensive..im not sure where the Stens parts are made..

but coming over here from the "antique snowblower" hobby (which actually exists! people seem to have few problems keeping 30, 40, and even 50 year old Tecumseh snowblower engines going..yes, its obviously *easier* to just replace the entire engine..but for those who want to keep a 50 year old Kohler engine running, what are our options?

thanks,

Scot

[VinsRJ 721]

"Not to mention, IMO putting a cheap junky chinese engine in a Wheel Horse just kills the soul of the machine..but thats another issue.

you dont have to agree with that one! I perhaps romanticize these old machines (and the bygone America they represent) more than most..but you really cant argue against the illegal cloning issue..and the "Cheap junk from China" issue is a lot more than just engines..people's health, and even lives, are being put at risk, all in the name of "saving money"

Your statement "cheap junky Chinese engine" is a little over the top and speaks of no experience with one of these motors. Why should someone pay a huge premium rebuilding a K Series when for a fraction of the cost a Clone may fit the bill.

I've been using Clones for a number of years with not one issue. I have even modded a 6.5hp Blue Clone (GX200 Honda equivalent) to nearly 20hp and beat the living s...t out of it with not one problem. Not to mention there is a whole kart series based on the Blue and Yellow Clones, I guess we lock all of them up.

They are good solid motors.

Now on the subject of families...... the issue is not Clones, it

[sscotsman 132]

Vince,

"IMO" means "In my opinion"

and the quality of the engine is really beside the point..

even it was an amazing quality engine, it still wouldnt be right. (IMO)

I have said everything I wanted to say, no need to debate further (from me anyway!

I never said anyone must agree with me!..I just want to make sure people are fully informed..When I bought my Craftsman push lawnmower 5 years ago I assumed a Craftsman mower + a Briggs engine = 100% American made.

I was very surprised to find the entire machine was made in China!

mower *and* engine..

But I was a newly minted homeowner..I hadnt touched a lawn mower in 20 years..I was genuinely ignorant that any of this was going on..and its safe to assume many people reading this thread might have no idea about what "cloning" actually means..my point was not to "tell people what to do"..(as if I have that power anyway! it is simply to inform..

people should be informed consumers..

these issues are important to me, and im sure they are important to others..

thanks,

Scot

[grnlark 479]

A friend of mine is the most die hard "American Made" guy I know. He drives a Silverado, wife drives an Equinox and he's a union electrician. He loves Nascar and is about as American loyal as you can get. We often have the American vs. foriegn car debate as I have a Honda and Subaru in my garage (well, and a 55 Buick and 65 Buick but those don't count). And I'll say here what I always say to him: I'd much rather see my hard earned dollars go to an american cause, but at the end of the day, if I have $20,000 to spend, I'm going to buy the best product and value for my dollar regardless of where it comes from. Unfortunately in most cases (with regards to vehicles anyways) it's not American. The same holds true for tractors and small engines. If you're a landscaper and need a machine to put crazy hours on that will be reliable and bulletproof, what's it powered with? Not a Kohler, not a Briggs, but a Kawi.

[Guest]

Your statement "cheap junky Chinese engine" is a little over the top and speaks of no experience with one of these motors. Why should someone pay a huge premium rebuilding a K Series when for a fraction of the cost a Clone may fit the bill.

I've been using Clones for a number of years with not one issue. I have even modded a 6.5hp Blue Clone (GX200 Honda equivalent) to nearly 20hp and beat the living s...t out of it with not one problem. Not to mention there is a whole kart series based on the Blue and Yellow Clones, I guess we lock all of them up.

They are good solid motors.

Now on the subject of families...... the issue is not Clones, it

[daemon2525 5]

Scot,

You keep refering to these as being "illegally cloned" yet you even say they may be licenced by Honda but you "doubt" it.

In other words, you do not know either way, yet insist that they are illegal.

Also a quote from someone on MTF does not prove anything.

They may very well be "illegal" and "junk" but please Cite your proof.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,122]

Where's this thread going? Can it get back on-topic?

[sscotsman 132]

Scot,

You keep refering to these as being "illegally cloned" yet you even say they may be licenced by Honda but you "doubt" it.

In other words, you do not know either way, yet insist that they are illegal.

Also a quote from someone on MTF does not prove anything.

They may very well be "illegal" and "junk" but please Cite your proof.

actually, I DO know either way..

Instead of "doubt it" I could have said "I know it for a fact"..but I knew people would jump on that..I try to keep things to "my opinion"..but since you require proof..

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=honda+lawsuit+china+clone

and in case you want to say "yeah but that only shows that thousands of people are merely talking about Honda lawsuits, that still doesnt prove anything" here is an actual news story:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...=top_world_news

(Lifan is one of the known names of the Harbor Freight clones)

and if that isnt good enough either..then I dont know what to say.

you will believe what you want to believe I guess..

take in all the information, and make up your own mind.

but its really seriously *not* in question that the clones are illegally made rip-offs..

Scot