Super-basic beginner question.

[sscotsman 194]

I have read that "there are no dumb questions"..

Well I have an ultra-basic question!

For a geared Wheel Horse, (like a round hood) does the machine have to be at a dead stop when you shift gears? or can you shift while in motion?

I always assumed you would shift on the fly, like driving a car..

but I recently read through an owners manual for a 1961 Cub Cadet, and it said you must be fully stopped when switching gears..

so with the Cub, you can't go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd gear while in motion..if you want to go "fast" you shift into third while stopped, then simply start going from a dead stop in 3rd gear..

Does it work the same way with Wheel Horses?

or can you "shift on the fly" with them?

(I dont yet own my first wheel horse! but im planning to get one soon!

I have only driven one garden tractor in my life..when I was in highschool I mowed my Uncles lawn a few summers..but im pretty sure it must have been a hydro, because I dont remember shifting..)

thanks!

Scot

[mavfreak 11]

the gears are not synchronized, therefor shifting while in motion is not recommended. You need to stop a place in the desired gear.

[VinsRJ 723]

The sound of the gears grinding is pretty hell-ish. :banghead:

[sscotsman 194]

Thanks guys!

thats what I figured..

but..I asked the question because the Cub Cadet owners manual was quite clear on what to do..but the Wheel Horse manual seems to imply that you *can* shift while in motion!

The Round-hood manuals (701 to 854) all say:

While in motion do not shift gears without depressing clutch pedal.

that is from the 1961 401, 551, 701 manual..

the 854 manual says the same thing..

That says nothing about stopping before shifting, and it clearly seems to imply you *can* shift while in motion..

so what is up with that?

thanks,

Scot

[sscotsman 194]

hmm..I was getting a vague feeling of de'ja vu as I posted that last reply above..

I thought "have I asked this question before?"

well no, I havent..but I did participate in a thread about it a year ago!

here is the previous thread:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14974

So it seems you *can* shift on the fly with some tractors..but even if you *can* that doesnt mean you *should*!

Its always a "best practice" to always stop before shifting..

Does that sound about right?

Scot

[Duff 206]

So it seems you *can* shift on the fly with some tractors..but even if you *can* that doesnt mean you *should*!

Its always a "best practice" to always stop before shifting..

Does that sound about right?

Hi, Scot,

While a few people have developed the "touch" to shift on the fly, everything I've read and experienced about the gear drive tractors (I've got three) strongly supports stopping completely before shifting gears.

When I first tried this a couple years ago when I got my first tractor I said to myself, "Heck, you learned to drive on farm and fire trucks with square cut gears and no synchromesh, so that's the difference?" I very quickly learned that the trannies between trucks and these little tractors are very different animals. Part of it is the throttle controls on the tractors don't lend themselves well to "feathering" the gas as you change gears.

So for the sake of longevity of your gears, I highly urge you to use the stop-shift-restart method!

Duff :banghead:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,169]

A potential source of your confusion might be the lack of understanding of the gear ratios/ground speed.

Unlike an automobile, these tractors have plenty of power to start off in second or third gear without stalling. (unless you're on a steep hill, etc.)

Once you become accustomed to your machine, you will know what gear to select before starting out.

Examples:

If you are just traveling from one area to another, put the tranz in third, release the clutch, and drive.

When you are ready to mow, engage the PTO, place the tranz in second, release the clutch, and cut the grass.

If you still can't control the urge to change gears while moving, download the transmission repair manual and study it well. You'll probably need it sooner or later. :banghead:

[Duff 206]

If you still can't control the urge to change gears while moving, download the transmission repair manual and study it well. You'll probably need it sooner or later.

Hilarious, but oh, so TRUE!!!!!!

Duff :thumbs:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,169]

Just for the record, I own the manual and have been inside a few Uni-Drives.

Video of what not to do! :thumbs:

[sscotsman 194]

I never said I had any urge to shift gears while moving! <_<

I was simply asking the question, because the owners manual is unclear..

well..I guess the manual is technically not unclear..its saying you can shift on the fly, and I suppose technically you can..(with some tractors)

but I really do believe everyone when they say you shouldnt do it anyway!

I guess there is no real need to shift on the fly anyway..

so thanks! I think between the two threads I now have it all straight!

Scot

[Docwheelhorse 2,792]

HI---while not reccomended once you get the feel for the transmission it is relatively easy to stab the clutch and "row" through the gears. Why you need to is the basic question... but have I been in 2nd and going along, stabbed the clutch and slid it into 3rd... has there been gear knashing... 90% no but ocassionally. Also---NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO you will NOT be able to go from a forward gear to reverse/reverse-->forwards or from hi-->lo/lo-->hi.

Tony (here comes the hate mail from the trani guys...) :thumbs:

[Docwheelhorse 2,792]

HI---while not reccomended once you get the feel for the transmission it is relatively easy to stab the clutch and "row" through the gears. Why you need to is the basic question... but I have been in 2nd and going along, stabbed the clutch and slid it into 3rd... has there been gear knashing... 90% no but ocassionally. Also---NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO you will NOT be able to go from a forward gear to reverse/reverse-->forwards or from hi-->lo/lo-->hi.

Tony (here comes the hate mail from the trani guys...) :thumbs:

[can whlvr 994]

i too shift on the fly,i have owned my 308 since brand new,been doing it since new,and i broke the rear end trying to break out of frozen mud and ice(i got lazy and thought it would move)it desroyed the pinions and axle gears,any way i had almost no visable wear on the gears,but u have to know when u can shift on the fly and when not,i also have others that do not like to shift on the fly so i dont.

[Redbirdman 7]

And it is very very easy to "shift down".........in other words from 3rd to second. just slip it out, wait a few seconds till she calms down a bit and slide it in again.....only a notch lower!

then go have a cigarette.... :banghead:

[littleredrider 409]

Must be mine are "nicely" broke in. I shift on the fly ALL THE TIME!!!! Both of mine have the 8 speeds, pretty much always in high range.

The 67 is cold blooded (K181) and needs time to warm up, specially the tranny. After it runs for a bit, I start in 1st cause the lawn is like driving on railroad ties, then will shift in 2nd then 3rd. Just a quick stab of the clutch and goes right in. Once in a while it will grind, but I've noticed I grind gears more while going forward then backwards while plowing. Get down to a routine and yah slip now and then!!!!

My 63 with the 13 horse almost requires starting off in low gear. It has a 3" IIRC on the engine and a 2 or 2 1/2" on the tranny, so she moves!!!!! (Does sweet dounts and powerslides!!!) This one is the same as the other, stab the clutch and it slides in.

Something to note, if your gonna try to do this, you need to be on fairly level ground or even a downhill. Shifting while going uphill slows down to much, and could make some serious grinding.