rydogg 186 #1 Posted January 6, 2011 I am getting closer to purchasing a 701 from a local collector, I was talking to him about the rebuild of the 7hp kohler and he said something was different about the cam I believe he said it was a 2 piece cam is this normal or did I just misunderstand something ?? I thought that they were just on piece cams but my knowledge of the internals of motors is kinda limited since most of my motors have been runners or completely shot so I just replaced them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #2 Posted January 6, 2011 Kohler didn't introduce the Automatic Compression Release (ACR) until 1965. Prior to that, the engines had centrifugal spark advance that retarded the ignition timing to make starting easier, then automatically advanced it to the normal operating position after a certain RPM. The "short end" of the camshaft (where the lobe for the breaker points is located) is separate from the rest of the cam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #3 Posted January 6, 2011 TT IF that is the case then how come the 62 to 64 kohler tractors do not have double belt gaurds like the 701. The reason I ask is IF my 701 is on a compression stroke when you try to start it with just one belt it will smoke the belt ( AND YES ITS TIGHT). If it is not on a compression stroke it will carry on over with no trouble. I have both belts on it now but this is what it was doing when I got it and trying to work out the bugs.I have been wondering about this for a while because Sparky has the engine specs for the 701 and 702 listed as the same engine in his models list. Which kudos to Sparky for that section Extremely helpful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #4 Posted January 6, 2011 2000 words worth: Someday I'll figure out the two-belt thing. :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VinsRJ 721 #5 Posted January 6, 2011 The reason for the double belt in 1961 was due to the fact that the K161 did not have ACR that year. In 1962 the ACR comprised of a fly wieght system added to the cam as well as a small lever to the exhaust lobe. This lever stayed in the up position so to speak causing the exhaust valve to be just cracked open and not completely seated. At about 250RPM the fly wieghts would articulate, the lever would be force down and the exhaust valve would then be able to seat completely on the valve seat, thus full compression would be realized. The double belt in 1961 was to avoid the chance for the SG to spin a single belt on the compression stroke at initial start up. I know Kohler was offering the ACR in 1962 becuase my 1962 Panzer with its original K161s had it. I eneded up selling the tractor to a member here on RS with all of its original paper work documenting the ACR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #6 Posted January 6, 2011 Why do my K141T (633 spare) and K161S (753 original) engines both have two-piece camshafts? :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VinsRJ 721 #7 Posted January 6, 2011 It may be due to the spec's of the manufacturers. I know when using the data on OPEENGINES.com to locate part numbers and parts. The 1962 Panzer Spec K161s has the ARC cam with the weight system. When I tore that original Panzer motor down it had the weights and lever in it. It would be interesting is how WH Spec'd a motor through Kohler. Another words... Kohler had various offerings of the K161...... how did WH pick the correct motor for the application? Did WH go to Kohler with what the required and Kohler built it? Or did Kohler provide information on what they had as offerings and said pick one? Or even may be, both parties just pulled off whatever was on the shelf for the given model year. :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #8 Posted January 6, 2011 If sparky is correct in the models list with the701 and the 702 having the same spec # 161 then I would think the internals would be the same also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #9 Posted January 6, 2011 Check this out: Kohler history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puddlejumper 67 #10 Posted January 6, 2011 Vince seems pretty certain about his 62 panzer but TT shows it in back and white so could it be a typo on kohlers page. There is only one thing I am sure of at the moment I do not have the research skills or computer literacy to find out. :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VinsRJ 721 #11 Posted January 7, 2011 Just to further muddy the waters, I went back and retraced my foot steps through OPE and my Panzer documents to make sure I was not going mental and messing info up. The Spec number for the 1962 Panzer T70ES K161 is 28573, which according to Kohler was issued to PA Lawn Products - Virginia Metalcrafters. PA/VA were the owners of Panzer Tractors in 1962. I also verified that the 28573 K161 was the original motor to my Panzer by contacting Jim Haynes at Dandy Sales. The part number for the camshaft was/is A-230155-S. Attached is a couple pics of the original camshaft which cam out of my Panzer K161. The only reason I replaced it was I had found an NOS A-230155-S camshaft. Notice that there is no spark advance, just the exhaust valve actuator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #12 Posted January 7, 2011 A-230155-S is the service "kit" to replace the original two-piece camshaft. (which was A-230155) It is a "universal replacement part" for most K141/161/181 engines. The cam you have pictured is elliptically-ground between the lobes - specifically for connecting rod clearance on the K181 - which wasn't manufactured until 1964. Someone was inside your Panzer engine before you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VinsRJ 721 #13 Posted January 7, 2011 A-230155-S is the service "kit" to replace the original two-piece camshaft. (which was A-230155) It is a "universal replacement part" for most K141/161/181 engines. The cam you have pictured is elliptically-ground between the lobes - specifically for connecting rod clearance on the K181 - which wasn't manufactured until 1964. Someone was inside your Panzer engine before you. Now we got it! :banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
