question for you folks

[rob65 0]

Hello all-

My name is Rob and this is my first post on this forum. I bought a '75 d180 recently. the motor runs great it motors pretty fast in fwd & reverse on flat ground around the yard. But it's weak on in incline. esp. in reverse. Is it worth putting the money into a hydro rebuild? I have about $1500. into it so far. I need the tractor for hauling mostly. If I have the hydro rebuilt how strong will it be? As strong as something new? I appreciate any input.

-regards Rob

[mavfreak 11]

:thumbs:

[Sparky-(Admin) 23,170]

Well before you take on a hydro rebuild have you checked the fluid level. Or maybe swap out the fluid and filter to make sure thats not your problem?

Mike..........

[Sparky-(Admin) 23,170]

Oops....where are my manners................ !

Mike.......

[rob65 0]

All fluids are clean and full. Right now I have it at a local toro dealer.

[rob65 0]

thank you all.

[Trouty56 567]

Fortunately for me the hydro works well in my tractor. There are lots of posts about getting other hydro units from a part out and getting a good pump. There are two components to the drive. There is the pump and then there is the motor. Either one could be weak or both. Search the forum for some related posts.

:thumbs:

[jpmcleod 4]

I have a C-175 with the same problem. It runs great on level ground but I have to get a running start to load it on the trailer. I have changed the filter and fluid and checked the fluid level to make sue it it full. Still the same problem. I am lost for what could be wrong.

I have a Bronco 14 Hydro and I believe it would pull the house down. The hydro is great in it.

[HankB 16]

:thumbs:

I'm fortunately not an expert on the hydros. But as a WH owner that has one I follow the threads to see what I might face should mine start giving me difficulty.

There seem to be a couple things that come up. One is adjustment and/or wear in the direction lever linkage. Another seems to be difficulty with some bypass or acceleration valves in the trans. Fortunately either of those is not too expensive to fix. You also need to make sure the cooling fins are clean to avoid overheating the fluid.

Another problem can be a sheared key anywhere between the engine output shaft and the hubs. But this usually produces the problem that the tractor simply stops moving at all.

The worst problem is that the pump and/or hydraulic motor wear to the point that sufficient fluid leaks past the vanes to reduce the power available. I think it is not cost effective to rebuild in these cases, particularly if a used part can be found to replace it.

In this last case, there are other things I would explore before I abandoned the unit. Older WH tractors used ATF for their fluid. Newer ones use 10W-30 or 10W-40 engine oil. In fact, you can convert an older unit to engine oil if you make sure to flush all of the ATF out of it. (WH published a bulletin for this but I have not read it.) If I had an older one that used ATF, I'd convert it to engine oil to see if that made a difference. (That's based on the belief that engine oil may be higher viscosity than ATF. I could be wrong on that.) And frankly, if I was faced with replacing the trans anyway, I'd try increasing the viscosity by mixing in some 20W-xx or even some gear lube. If the trans works OK when the oil is cold and thick, why not try to thicken the oil a bit to compensate for wear? Please note, this is not a recommendation, just something I'd explore. There could be unintended consequences. Perhaps then the system might develop excess pressure when cold and that might be a Bad Thing. I've never heard this discussed and I know there are smarter people than me reading this forum. I'd be curious if this has ever been considered before.

But the first thing to do is to locate all of the manuals you can find for your particular trans. My 314-H uses an Eaton 1100 series and I found a detailed manual for it at the Eaton web site. It looks like it has a pretty thorough repair and troubleshooting section. Perhaps the same information is available for the Sundstrand units as well (which I think the D180 uses.)

Good luck!

-hank

[Docwheelhorse 2,740]

Ok... I'll bite---whats with the Trade Mark on "Bad Thing"

[Rollerman 290]

Rob I'm a big fan of the D's, have had a few & still own a 73 18Automatic (pre D)

They are big & impressive looking, but hidden under all that sheet metal is basically the same trans thats on the smaller Wheel Horse's.

They can do a lot of work but the trans can be a weak point on them because of the D's size.

Pulling big loads.....probably not a D's best attribute or any hydro in my opinion.

I'd leave that kind of work to a manual equipted GT.

Your post said you use it for hauling mostly?

How big of a load are you trying to move?

The D can still pull a good load, but if your asking it to haul say a tandem axle trailer around the yard or a trailer full of more wood than a pickup would carry you might need a small tractor, not a big GT.

Make sure your dealer is putting a new Wheel Horse brand hydro filter in.

These can cause problems when they clog up or get dirty (obvious), but also if another make of filter is used it may not flow as well hampering the performance & ability of the hydro.

Hank brought up some valid point....the linkage can become worn in the D's.

There are a lot of moveing parts between the direction control lever sticking out on the right side of the dash on down to the hydro.

If these joints get a little play to them...again your loseing performance out of your hydro.

The direction control gives your input to a cam plate on the side of the hydro pump.

This cam plate & cam follower can also become worn reduceing the performance & ability of your hydro trans.

Good luck & please keep us updated on what you find out.

Oh and :thumbs:

[HankB 16]

Ok... I'll bite---whats with the Trade Mark on "Bad Thing"

Just emphasis. If the pump is worn, I don't think they are generally rebuildable.

[rob65 0]

First thanks for all your input. My wife & I are somewhat anxious about the cash I've put into it (about $3000. to date). That does include a parts tractor which will be picked up Sat.

We bought the tractor to:

1. plow our 300 ft. driveway.

2. haul fire wood from and to the wood piles. (full loads in the WheelHorse dump trailor)

3. haul mulch once a year

The D-180 seems like a good fit to me.

Now that I got the thing home, I really want to bring it back to original condition. (Within reason, $).

What year did Wheel Horse redesign the transaxel?

[Rollerman 290]

What year did Wheel Horse redesign the transaxel?

Guess i'm confused (typicall) by what you mean?

There were several running changes or improvements as time went on, but I don't think they ever went back to the drafting table & redesigned the trans/transaxle.

Some of the earler D's were known to break the bolts holding the diff together.

This caused the broken parts to get jamned under the diff & break a hole in the bottom of the trans case.

Those were upgraded as time went omn.

Also I've heard of the axles in the D's gougeing or getting groves worn in them at the outer bearings.

I haven't seen this on one of mine...but something I have heard they made a change or running improvement in later models.

[rob65 0]

What year did Wheel Horse redesign the transaxel?

Guess i'm confused (typicall) by what you mean?

There were several running changes or improvements as time went on, but I don't think they ever went back to the drafting table & redesigned the trans/transaxle.

Some of the earler D's were known to break the bolts holding the diff together.

This caused the broken parts to get jamned under the diff & break a hole in the bottom of the trans case.

Those were upgraded as time went omn.

Also I've heard of the axles in the D's gougeing or getting groves worn in them at the outer bearings.

I haven't seen this on one of mine...but something I have heard they made a change or running improvement in later models.

I had heard that the later year D's, did not use the parking pawl. They had a band brake or something. Is this true?

[HorseFixer 2,013]

Make sure your dealer is putting a new Wheel Horse brand hydro filter in.

These can cause problems when they clog up or get dirty (obvious), but also if another make of filter is used it may not flow as well hampering the performance & ability of the hydro.

keep us updated on what you find out.

Oh and

Rob Stephen is 110% correct on the filters they are designed different. and have great flow I would ck this 1st! I have cut these filters open and did a comparison! A matter of fact I have cut over 50 filters open and examined. For this paticular application stay with the wheelhorse brand!

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,534]

Rob,

If it is at the dealer have then put a pressure test on the hydro and see if it meets the specs. If it is not producing enough pressure then it is your pump and replace it. If the pressure is good then it is a mechanical issue (linkage, coupler, splines etc) Good luck.

[Rollerman 290]

What year did Wheel Horse redesign the transaxel?

Guess i'm confused (typicall) by what you mean?

There were several running changes or improvements as time went on, but I don't think they ever went back to the drafting table & redesigned the trans/transaxle.

Some of the earler D's were known to break the bolts holding the diff together.

This caused the broken parts to get jamned under the diff & break a hole in the bottom of the trans case.

Those were upgraded as time went omn.

Also I've heard of the axles in the D's gougeing or getting groves worn in them at the outer bearings.

I haven't seen this on one of mine...but something I have heard they made a change or running improvement in later models.

I had heard that the later year D's, did not use the parking pawl. They had a band brake or something. Is this true?

Okay that redesign.....

You are right the earlyer Sundstrand hydro's didn't have a true brake on them.

Just a pawl or tooth like thing that swung into a gear & locked the trans up for a parking break.

These break off pretty easy if the tractor is moved while in park.

Later Sundstrand hydro's had the piston to piston hydrostatic & were much stronger & used an external drum brake on them as a parking brake.

I can't give you the exact years or when the change between the two trans types happened.

I'd have to do some homework tonight & get back with you.

Keep in mind with a D or other hydro tractor....the brake no matter if it's external drum or pawl it's for a parking brake.

You stop on the hydro itself.