Anyone wanna help??

[dscott2000 1]

Hey guys.. I never thought I would be saying this. But, my Raider has formed a transmission problem. I fear that it may need rebuilt. When I go to riding it to do some yard work it tends to jerk in a rhythmic fashion. After jacking up the rear end of the tractor and spinning the rear tires, it chatters. I flushed the transmission with some oil and found no shavings or metal chunks. So, the reason I am asking for help is the fact that I have never pulled a trans apart before. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[rmaynard 16,589]

If you are mechanically inclined, have the place and tools to do it, taking a transmission apart is not that big a deal. Sounds to me like you may have a pinion gear problem. Since the pinion gears are enclosed in the differential, you may not see any metal in the oil. This is just my opinion and I would wait until others have chimed in with their analysis.

Bob

[jimt1971 237]

Before tearing it apart check your hubs. They will cause jerking if they are loose or the keyways are worn.

Jim

[stevasaurus 23,455]

dscott...Jim is correct that the loose hubs may cause a slipping or chugging. Check that first. Bob is also correct with the pinions, or it could be the inner bearings. If that transmission is the right one, you should have a 5086...an 8 speed with the hi-low. Does it shift smooth through the gears??? If so, it is probably in the differential or those bearings. Do you have a copy of the trans manual, I think there is a copy floating around here or in links. I can send you a copy in E-Mail if you want...send me your E-Mail address if you want a copy. There are a few threads that show pictures of the inside of the trans. The 5025 threads that I have done and Bevan just finished are close to what you will find inside. Without looking yet, the hi-low and maybe the number of pinions (8) are the differences. Parts are available and the gasket for the trans halves is about $5.00. I have a feeling you will have to pull the trans. I and others will walk you through it if you want. It really isn't that hard, and a great learning experience.

When you own a horse...you learn to become a vet. :)

[mavfreak 11]

steve your going to be the go to guy when come to transmissions!

Dscott. I had a hub that was loose and did the same thing you talked of.

It was worce at slow speeds and not noticeable at high speed (well as fast as a wheel horse would go) I would cheak there frist.

[stevasaurus 23,455]

Heath...I love being able to help. I know nothing about autos and hydros though......yet :USA:

[dscott2000 1]

dscott...Jim is correct that the loose hubs may cause a slipping or chugging. Check that first. Bob is also correct with the pinions, or it could be the inner bearings. If that transmission is the right one, you should have a 5086...an 8 speed with the hi-low. Does it shift smooth through the gears??? If so, it is probably in the differential or those bearings. Do you have a copy of the trans manual, I think there is a copy floating around here or in links. I can send you a copy in E-Mail if you want...send me your E-Mail address if you want a copy. There are a few threads that show pictures of the inside of the trans. The 5025 threads that I have done and Bevan just finished are close to what you will find inside. Without looking yet, the hi-low and maybe the number of pinions (8) are the differences. Parts are available and the gasket for the trans halves is about $5.00. I have a feeling you will have to pull the trans. I and others will walk you through it if you want. It really isn't that hard, and a great learning experience.

When you own a horse...you learn to become a vet.

I do know that the hubs are on there quite well. (I tried to pull them off myself and had no luck.) My transmission is the 6 speed with hi/low. So, according to what you are saying.. It may be the wrong transmisson for my tractor. It does shift smoothly through the gears as well as high and low. Hopefully the parts that I may need are still available at my retailer and they are relatively cheap. I should be able to tackle the problem myself with minimal swearing and bashing my head on the walls of my garage. I pulled the transmisson myself the other day and had a friend come over with one of those fancy camera/scope thingies and we didnt see anything out of the ordinary. But, as stated before.. The pinion is kind of a self contained thing. So, we couldnt really see that. It was pretty neat regardless. I was thinking of maybe trying to purchase a new gearbox in hopes that I can get one relatively cheap. (I cant afford much since I am on a tight income.) Would it be cheaper to rebuild this trans or, buy another? I cant say since I am fairly new to the whole WH scene. I have 2 now and am learning more and more everyday! So, any learning involved will be more than welcome! :)

[B-8074 20]

It might be cheaper to find a used one but you never know what your gonna get. If you rebuild the one you have you will know what you have and will probably outlast you and me. I would atleast open it up and see what's up. It could be something really simple. Good luck.

[HankB 16]

My transmission is the 6 speed with hi/low. So, according to what you are saying.. It may be the wrong transmisson for my tractor.

WH used a 6 speed transmission that had 3 forward speeds and reverse speed with a hi/lo range. Later on, they upgraded to an 8 speed transmission that had ... 3 forward speeds and reverse speed with a hi/lo range.

I bet there's more difference in the labeling than in the actual trans.

-hank

[stevasaurus 23,455]

I think Hank is correct, and I think you have the correct trans. I also have the 5086 in my 1972 Raider 10. It is basically the original uni-drive with a hi-low. As was stated, when you buy a used trans, you don't know what you will get. For about $5.00 (for the gasket) you can take yours apart and at least see what is wrong. Place the trans, after draining, with the shallow side down, take out the bolts and split the case. The whole differential can now be pulled out at this point. If you need to buy another trans, you will have parts. If you need parts, and TORO doesn't have it, one of the members here may have what you need. Need to find the problem first. You will be surprised how simple these transmissions are to work on. BTW, you should have the 8 pinion differential. Remove the 4 bolts and the differential cover and take a look. The pinions alternate one up and one down. The axle gear on one axle will interact with the pinions that are down, and the other axle gear will interact with the pinions that are up. Check all the teeth for wear and breaks.

A used trans will be anywhere from $50 up to $250, shipping can be around $50 or more, depending on where you are at and where the trans is coming from. Well worth taking it a part and taking a look.

If you PM me your E-Mail address, I can send you the manual and help walk you through it. I can't send the manual over the pm circuit. It is in PDF format.

The 5086 transmission is called an 8-speed transmission and is covered in section 5 of the manual.

Can you post some pictures, so we can see also??? You know how we are about pictures. :)

[Anglo Traction 761]

Forgive me butting in Folks, I've been swatting the Diff Manual, before I operate on my (reputed) 5091 tranny in my new aquisition... Anyway, the manual says that a 5086 is a 4 (solid) pinion Diff !. If so , are the stresses greater, the fewer the number of pinions ?. I'm following this with interest.

Regards.

[dscott2000 1]

I think Hank is correct, and I think you have the correct trans. I also have the 5086 in my 1972 Raider 10. It is basically the original uni-drive with a hi-low. As was stated, when you buy a used trans, you don't know what you will get. For about $5.00 (for the gasket) you can take yours apart and at least see what is wrong. Place the trans, after draining, with the shallow side down, take out the bolts and split the case. The whole differential can now be pulled out at this point. If you need to buy another trans, you will have parts. If you need parts, and TORO doesn't have it, one of the members here may have what you need. Need to find the problem first. You will be surprised how simple these transmissions are to work on. BTW, you should have the 8 pinion differential. Remove the 4 bolts and the differential cover and take a look. The pinions alternate one up and one down. The axle gear on one axle will interact with the pinions that are down, and the other axle gear will interact with the pinions that are up. Check all the teeth for wear and breaks.

A used trans will be anywhere from $50 up to $250, shipping can be around $50 or more, depending on where you are at and where the trans is coming from. Well worth taking it a part and taking a look.

If you PM me your E-Mail address, I can send you the manual and help walk you through it. I can't send the manual over the pm circuit. It is in PDF format.

The 5086 transmission is called an 8-speed transmission and is covered in section 5 of the manual.

Can you post some pictures, so we can see also??? You know how we are about pictures.

Having a manual will help me quite a bit.. PM will soon be sent. If its pics of the tractor you are inquiring about, check out this thread.. http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12915

Whereas, pics of the trans. I dont currently have any. Dont worry though, I will post pics of it soon! My A800 has my full attention as of right now. As soon as I get one problem squared away on it. I will start pulling the trans apart on the Raider.

[stevasaurus 23,455]

, are the stresses greater, the fewer the number of pinions ?. I'm following this with interest.

Regards.

Rich...not sure about the stress part. The pinions in the 4 differential are larger then the pinions in the 8. The real difference, I think, is the 4 pinion is really a one wheel drive at a time, and the 8 pinion acts like a posi-traction...limited slip. I hope I explained that right. It looks like the 5086 and the 5091 are basically the same trans.

dscott...E-Mail sent. :USA:

[yokomist 0]

Morning Gents,

I just wanted to add that after tearing down the trans with Steve its not near as bad as you would think

If it comes to it, you are in the right place with the right guys that will help you with what you need to do.

Bevan

[Anglo Traction 761]

Yes Thanks Steve, and sorry to deviate from the thread ,... hope it's going ok dscott.

Regards

[stevasaurus 23,455]

Yes Thanks Steve, and sorry to deviate from the thread ,... hope it's going ok dscott.

Regards

Richard...if you have some questions...please start a thread and ask. I do not pretend to know everything about transmissions. Quite honestly, I learn along with you guys as to what is out there and available and different experiences that some of the members have had. What I bring to the table is this....the transmissions are very easy to work on...finding out what is wrong may not be that hard..to clean it and put it back together may save much dollars...pictures help a lot...if I am wrong there are 45 + people to correct me...we both learn...

This is like you brought it over to my garage and we spent the day tearing into it.

Being retired, I can be here during the day and you will not have to wait until the next day for an answer. even if you are 6 hours later.

There are some very knowledgeable people on this site, I just happen to be able to be available most of the time. Like to help if I can...

Thanks Bevan...that really means a lot to me...really want to see a video of that trans working.... :)

[dscott2000 1]

Yes Thanks Steve, and sorry to deviate from the thread ,... hope it's going ok dscott.

Regards

Richard...if you have some questions...please start a thread and ask. I do not pretend to know everything about transmissions. Quite honestly, I learn along with you guys as to what is out there and available and different experiences that some of the members have had. What I bring to the table is this....the transmissions are very easy to work on...finding out what is wrong may not be that hard..to clean it and put it back together may save much dollars...pictures help a lot...if I am wrong there are 45 + people to correct me...we both learn...

This is like you brought it over to my garage and we spent the day tearing into it.

Being retired, I can be here during the day and you will not have to wait until the next day for an answer. even if you are 6 hours later.

There are some very knowledgeable people on this site, I just happen to be able to be available most of the time. Like to help if I can...

Thanks Bevan...that really means a lot to me...really want to see a video of that trans working....

I will post a video of the trans to show how the transmission is acting. It will probably take a day or so. Sorry it has taken me a while to respond. Alot on my plate right now. I should have some free time to take said video tomorrow. Oh! Steve! I got your email and I thank you! Im sure that it will really help to have a visual!