Bad rattle and vibration at higher RPM.

[MikesRJ 558]

Chuck,

Ever hear of Dale Carnegie?

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

Was he the one going to apologize to me for being falsely accused of derogatory "Redneck" comments?

I never received a Hallmark apology card with the phrase "WHATEVER" on the front - so I guess this Carnegie guy is going to send me one post marked from west of the Mississippi?

While I'm waiting for that to happen, I'll entertain myself with some interesting video clips.

I wonder what side of the bullet proof acrylic Mr. Carnegie would choose to stand behind in this little experiment?

[JimD 3,347]

Chuck,

Ever hear of Dale Carnegie?

Mike, even Dale Carnegie can't fix a bunch of "non-user serviceable parts". :)

[Deere Hunter 54]

unless you could have the flywheel precision balanced...Id throw it on the scrap pile.

I would be very leary of using a flywheel missing a fin. Had a local guy here get real lucky when his flywheel decided to come apart. He was setting the timing with the engine running at 3600 RPM. the only thing that saved him was the 1/8" steel sheild he had around the flywheel. A chunk of the flywheel went thru the 1/8" steel and the frame of a 122 cub cadet before it hit him in the face and head. Messed him up for awhile. I cant imagine what would of happened if this was on a Wheel Horse with just the tin shield. Before anyone thinks this was a modified engine, it wasnt. Just a 40 year old stock motor getting a tuneup before the guy tried it in the stock class for pulling. If it was mine, I'd replace it.

[WH854 45]

Replace the flywheel

Chas :USA:

[Gene_S 93]

Buy another flywheel or just buy the one Kelly has, I'm sure it's a good one...

Steve, I never seen your comment, but all I know is, your a great person.

Sometimes there is a bad apple in a bushel, and all you need to do is throw it away!

[buckeye 5]

:)

[Anglo Traction 761]

Roly, Could that good breaker close to you be Bob Lewis in Ashton Keynes ?. If so , I'm sure he'll sort one for you. Send the old one for recycling and keep your left foot intact !.

[Kelly 1,033]

I'm only asking a few bucks for the one I have it's the $60 shipping that cost so much. good luck getting a flywheel.

[bo dawg 536]

WOW! where did that come from? I guess I must of missed something cause Toolman seemed like he had an attitude before he jumped on this tread. Looking for trouble or a reason to bale out on this group.

I know we've had a few bad issues in this group before, but come on. I also know we all care about others safety and concerns here and are truly passinate about the source of this group... which is WH tractors.

This group is here to help others out that may not have the experience that some others has...true! That's what makes this site good and interesting. Everyone has their own way and opinion of doing/fixing things...that's cool too. But we might be doing it wrong and a little help or someone to open our eye's could go a long way!

Right???

:wh:

[rmaynard 16,575]

:)

Bob

[kpinnc 15,689]

To come back to the point of the thread here- I'm not gonna comment on anything else for now other than to say it's a shame someone has a genuine question that gets hijacked the way this one has. Jeez!

To the point:

Didn't the C141 use rubber isolation mounts on the engine? Given the out of balance condition of the flywheel, those mounts could certainly add to (or at least allow more) high rev vibration. You may want to check them all and make sure none are worn out or broken, if the tractor has them. Personally, I'd remove the mounts and cradle altogether and fasten the engine to the frame. It would certainly reduce vibrations in this case- and help with the added stress on the crank bearings.

There is also a guy on Ebay that carries aluminum replacements for the rubber mounts. That is also a good "solid mount" option- if there are oil pan issues. I don't remember the user name, but it was in the puller ads for Cub Cadets I believe.

Just my two cents. I've been wrong before...

Kevin

[linen beige 15]

First things first. What broke the fin off of the flywheel? It could very well have more damage that is not as easy to see. At the very least, it needs to be removed from the engine and examined, not just "looked at", to make sure it isn't an explosion waiting to happen.

You folks over in the UK may not know this name, but I bet most on this side of the pond do.... What do Y'all think Don Garlits would say about a damaged flywheel? Remember him? He's the race driver that lost half of a foot to a "flywheel gone wild".

If there is ANY portion of the flywheel missing it IS out of balance and WILL vibrate. Material can be removed from the opposite side to bring it back into balance IF it is not cracked. This should be done by a shop that is qualified for this type work.

Gluing weights to the OUTSIDE of a flywheel is nowhere near a good idea.

I'm one of those guys that goes to great lengths to preserve original parts, but if it was my engine it would get a new flywheel without hesitation.

[Guest]

A crack will likely grow from the root of the missing vane causing the flywheel to rupture at some point if there's a jagged break. You probably won't get hit by blazing 7000 fps (Mach 3+) debris - but something on the order of 120 fps is more likely and still very dangerous. I think vibration is the minor issue.

If the break is smooth you might look into solid mounts as suggested by Kevin. Force imbalance due to a fin should be in the noise compared to crank imbalance and other shaking forces on a single cylinder engine. Rubber mounts, in good condition or bad condition will dynamically amplify vibration at some frequency level ( or crank speed). Try a solid mount - if you're not unsettled by the possibility of a fractured flywheel.

[MRM 4]

I had a Kohler 8 hp that had a fin busted off and it ran just as smooth as any of the other engines i have.

[MRM 4]

Did you remove the fly wheel? If not, what if the key was sheared and the fly wheel was off a bit, would that change the timing and make it run rough and seem out of balance. Just a thought :)

[Anglo Traction 761]

Jim - Yep !, I remember Garlits... Top Fueler some while back, didn't know about the incident though.

Greg - Skinner.... Like your thinking style and the equations!. Me thinks we may also share the same Surname?

Regards.

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

You probably won't get hit by blazing 7000 fps (Mach 3+) debris - but something on the order of 120 fps is more likely and still very dangerous.

Thanks Greg for catching and speaking up regarding this "slight miscalculation". I'm glad someone looked at it and questioned my Mach 3 calculation which even to a quick mental calculation should have raised suspicion. I was hoping a ridiculous statement would not go unquestioned or unchallenged - for too long.

I hope it brings to light two dangers I see in anyone blindly accepting "recommendations" without applying any sanity checks. You applied the sanity check and did spoke out without fear of insulting my opinion/ calculations.

The 120 fp/s calculation is correct for the inner area of the flywheel fins. At the outer tips, we could probably get up to around 150 fp/s and nearing 200 fp/s for the starter teeth at the very edge.

Now if we can get folks to check for lead paint on the older tractors before we start hitting them with grinder discs !!

[bmuone 15]

Now :)

[linen beige 15]

Jim - Yep !, I remember Garlits... Top Fueler some while back, didn't know about the incident though.

I forgot to add that Garlits' encounter with a flywheel gone wild was a leading factor in rail dragster builders moving the engines to a place behind the driver. In other words, when they saw just how dangerous a damaged flywheel could be they changed their whole game in a safety first way.

[Docwheelhorse 2,778]

One more question.... was this engine rebuilt as part of the restoration and is it possible the infamous balance gears where put in wrong? That would explain alot.....

Tony