Can you help me identify my new tractor please

[multihobbyguy 35]

I picked up a tractor at the Wheel Horse Show this week and I am not sure what model it is for sure. I believe that there are four possibilities but I am no expert. I have the serial number (A-60686) but the belt cover is missing and I don't know the model number. The tractor currently has a kohler engine but I think it might not be correct. The engine does not have a oil plug at the back of the engine like I see in some of the pictures. This one would drain onto the mower belts. The block looks to be originally red but someone has put a coil and a different shroud on it at some point along with a battery box to run the coil. Here are some pictures, maybe that would help narrow it down, as always, thank you, Chris.

[rickv1957 75]

Looks like maybe a 704,Rick

[rydogg 186]

654???

My seat and steering wheel are incorrect and the hood has been hacked.

The 704 had no battery and the 654 had a battery so it depends on weather that battery tray is original or the motor, it should be a k161 kohler if it is a 704. I would also guess 704 since the battery tray does not look original but it could have been changed at one time. :thumbs:

[multihobbyguy 35]

Yes the battery tray is homemade. Is there another place they would have placed a model number for this tractor? Is there a way to tell what it was originally from the serial number? I am hoping to put it back the way that it came from factory so any help would be appreciated in figuring out the correct model number. Once again, thanks, Chris.

[JUSS10 250]

I'd say 704 if the battery tray is indeed homemade. also since there is a kohler in there, that also hints at 704

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

You guys are forgetting one:

(sorry - not the best specimen)

You're going to have to do a little serial number comparing to get closer to an answer.

[WH nut 553]

My fist thought was a 704 also, but it should be magneto ignition, meaning the coil is under the flywheel

[multihobbyguy 35]

Unfortunately the shroud/flywheel cover has been changed on the kohler and there is no id tag on the the replacement shroud/flywheel cover. I am hesitant to say that it is the original engine because of the oil plug, but maybe someone here can enlighten me about it. My oil drain plug is on the side and in the pictures I see of other 704's they have the oil plug coming out towards the back of the tractor. Thank you for the replies, I really hope I can figure out what model it was originally. If someone has a serial number close to mine and would let me know what their tractor is that would also be great. Once again mine is (A-60686). Once again, Thanks.

[bowtieguy 334]

Like TT says, serial numbers is probably the only way to ID your tractor.....I'm guessing it is not a 704.

I have an all original 704 with a serial # 17169..notice it does NOT have an "A" in front of the numbers.

Looks like a 604 to me...might check serial # on TT's 604?? :thumbs:

[squonk 43,844]

My 704 "looks" all original. The Kohler engine has the rear plug, the correct numbers on the engine shroud, mag ignition and the paint is consistent throughout except the hood,shroud, and air filter. The serial no. is A-59856. My deck is different than the one you have pictured. My deck is the same one that came on my dad's 604 when he bought it new. You can see my 704 here:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19526

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Engines, mower decks, and many other pieces can be changed, but a serial number sticker is hard not to believe.

It appears as though one run of 704 models had the "A-" prefix (which was generally used on attachments) but perhaps WH was trying to use up the S/N stickers due to the upcoming release of the aluminum ID tags.

The 604 I posted above is/was not mine and I have no idea what the S/N was on that unit.

I did check my 704 and it looks like it was built between the two tractors (numbers) already posted here. (mine is A-60381)

[bowtieguy 334]

In "street rod" talk, you have always heard the expression: "it takes a hell of a man to cut up a perfectly good 32 Ford body"

Did anybody happen to notice the "hood modification" on the 604 that Terry posted?.....must have been that sort of a man!!! :thumbs:

[multihobbyguy 35]

Today I pulled the head off to see what engine is on the tractor. I measured the bore and stroke and the engine is a k141. I looked through the model # list sticky and saw that engine only was a option in 1963. I have been collecting serial numbers in another thread and I am starting to lean towards a 704. Hopefully I will get a couple more serial numbers to help me make a better guess. Just a little update, Thanks, Chris.

[linen beige 15]

I'd be more inclined to guess it was a 604 and they upgraded to a Kohler when the Techy went shot. That would also explain why the belt guard is no longer there, since a Techy belt guard won't fit the kohler.

[multihobbyguy 35]

I never thought about that. That is a very good thought. I keep hoping I will get a couple more serial numbers on my other thread that are closer. I am guessing the tractor will end up with a K161 and a 704 badge as I don't know that I will be able to find the correct Tech. motor. I think finding a kohler will be easier in the long run. Who knows what I will do for sure, at least I don't have to decide by tomorrow . Thanks again for the idea as I had not thought about the reason the guard was missing, Chris.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Two more questions, Chris......

What are the bore & stroke measurements?

Can you get a picture of the "right front" corner of the engine - particularly the area between the exhaust port and the carburetor mounting flange?

[multihobbyguy 35]

Here are the pictures TT, let me know if anymore will be of help.

The Stroke I measured right around 2.5"

The Bore I measured at between approx. 2.8655" and 2.8715". The numbers sit between a K141 2.785" and a K161 2.938". I am by no means a kohler expert those are just the numbers I pulled from the internet. As always any light you can shine on the engine or tractor is appreciated, Chris.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Yep.... definitely a K-141. Early 161's also had the 2.5" stroke and small 2.875" bore as opposed to the 2.938" bore of the later models. (and the 181's)

Although not totally fool-proof, every 141 I've seen from that era had the fins milled off between the exhaust and intake port - and I have no idea as to why.

as opposed to this (K-161 pictured)

The early magneto ignition coils are practically impossible to find (or very expensive) which is probably why the engine in your tractor has been changed to battery ignition.

Here's a pic of my 633:

Notice where the oil drain plug is located.

I know this doesn't help with positive identification of your tractor, but if it was me (and the current engine was beyond repair), I'd find a K-161 (or K-181) with magneto ignition / recoil start and buy a 704 decal for the belt guard. :D

[multihobbyguy 35]

My father has at least one complete K141 at home that I can have. It still has the old ignition and a functioning recoil. The only problems is that he is about 1200 miles from me. This engine when hooked to a battery has fire but the carb is froze up an so I have not tried to start it. I did spray a little carb cleaner down it and put a robe and battery on it and it popped a couple of times. Also the exhaust valve sticks open or has a broken spring or keeper. Your idea on K161 or K181 is the direction I am leaning with the 704 decal. Unfortunately I am only finding them with generators and coils so far. I am headed to the annual Truckahoe Steam and Gas Engine show next weekend so maybe I will get lucky and find a complete engine that will work. Thanks for looking in on the posts and identifying the engine, Chris.

[squonk 43,844]

Yep.... definitely a K-141. Early 161's also had the 2.5" stroke and small 2.875" bore as opposed to the 2.938" bore of the later models. (and the 181's)

Although not totally fool-proof, every 141 I've seen from that era had the fins milled off between the exhaust and intake port - and I have no idea as to why.

as opposed to this (K-161 pictured)

The early magneto ignition coils are practically impossible to find (or very expensive) which is probably why the engine in your tractor has been changed to battery ignition.

Here's a pic of my 633:

Notice where the oil drain plug is located.

I know this doesn't help with positive identification of your tractor, but if it was me (and the current engine was beyond repair), I'd find a K-161 (or K-181) with magneto ignition / recoil start and buy a 704 decal for the belt guard.

Hey! I need that recoil cup like that one in the pic if you have a spare. :D

[WH nut 553]

The serial numbrt on my 704 is A50086

[multihobbyguy 35]

I figured I should update this thread. I never figured out for sure what model it is but I had decided that it would become a 704. There is a k141 that came on the tractor but all the electrical had been removed and it had no recoil. So off I went trying lock down a pull start 7hp kohler engine. First I started scouring craigslist and ebay and had no luck finding one that was close enough or cheap enough to me here in Virginia. So I decided to also start searching for a 8hp also. Well unfortunately I had no luck with that search either. So I called my father in Kansas and he thought he had a few laying around so I headed that way in July. Well my father had no 7hp engines and the 8hps ones had starter generators on them. What he did have was a few more k141's laying around so I loaded a couple of them and brought them back to Virginia. So now I am sorting one of the engines to see how it runs and I plan on buying a drive belt soon to run the tractor around in it's work clothes to make sure that the tranny has no serious problems then I plan to tear the tractor down and spruce it up some. Even though the tractor will not have the correct motor I will probably go ahead and badge it a 704. Thanks for checking in, here are a couple of pictures until I start a new thread detailing some of the rebuilding and other tasks, Chris.

P.S. Any ideas what I do about the seat and fenders? I am a big guy and the seat rubs on the fenders when I sit on it. Any ideas how to prevent it from happening when I get it fixed up.

[Kelly 1,033]

Glad you got it going, as for the seat rubbing, I'm not a big guy about 5'8" and 180lbs and I can make some of mine rub, but others don't so you might try another seat spring?? but problem is it might take a few to find a strong one, another thing I have seen is a spacer under the seat I've seen 2x4's metal blocks ect..... then you will have more room before rubbing.

[wheel horse 1045 2]

i changed mine to a round metal seat and no more rubbing :thumbs:

[squonk 43,844]

I have the same problem with the seat. In fact the po must have had the same problem as there were scratches in both fenders. I'll probably go with the spacer idea. I all ready lost weight. :thumbs: