WH C-160 Starter started to smoke.

[C-160 Tractor 1]

Hello All,

I am trying to fix up a wheel horse C-160 I got from a friend of the family.

It was a wiring mess.

I found a wiring diagram and re-wired it the best I could.

I also bought a few new parts for it.

After installing all the parts and re-wiring it I started it up and it ran great.

then I started it again and it was still good.

then the next day I tried to start it and is seemed like the battery was not as strong because the starter was turning over slowly.

But thats how it has been since I got it, this beast has a lot of compression.

Well I realized the battery was good and charged and the starter was still slow to turn it over.

Then the starter started to Smoke...

does that mean my starter is bad?

Do they have brushes in them that you can replace?

I also notice when I put the key switch to on the amp meter goes down a little bit below to negative? (to the left) what does that mean?

here are some pictures of it, maybe someone will see something wrong with my wiring the Solenoid and starter.

The Solenoid was replaced by the previous owner in an attempt to get it running.

so I am not even sure if it is the correct one needed?

pics

only had red wire. lol but all these are correct just showing.

this is what that looked like when I got it.

I bought that new rectifier its a 15 amp

SO here is the Solenoid

thanks for any help you can offer.

I still need to order a few replacement parts for the mower deck but i need to make sure it is running good before hand.

thanks

Brian

[rickv1957 77]

Sounds like your starter went bad,aftermarket starters can be puchased reasonable,Rick

[C-160 Tractor 1]

Sounds like your starter went bad,aftermarket starters can be puchased reasonable,Rick

ok I will look into getting a new one.

I just searched google and saw a few for 48$ but can they be had any cheaper than that?

I should probably take mine apart and see what it looks like inside it anyway.

[tgranthamfd 29]

Looks like you did a good job on the wiring. Maybe SOI will cruse through here and see something out of the ordinary. You might look through some of the posts in the wh electrical section, there are some voltage checks you can do once you get it up and running to tell if the stator is working correctly. Looks like there is still one of the amp meter wires that could give you some trouble on down the road, too. Also, you can't run a higher voltage stator with a lower voltage rated rectifier. Example, 30 amp stator with a 15 amp rectifier. I think most of the 160's came with a 30 amp rectifier so you could run whatever amp stator that you wanted to. I wasn't sure so I replaced both with a 15 amp setup on my 80 C-145, working great so far. Good luck with it. Terry

[tgranthamfd 29]

Not sure about the solenoid, my original on my 74 doesn't look quite like that one. Those starters can be a pain, but mostly because they are so small. My brother made up some new words when we did one of his, not good words either.

[Save Old Iron 1,573]

Sounds like your starter went bad,aftermarket starters can be puchased reasonable,Rick

I think Rick called this one correctly.

Remember that when the starter solenoid is energized, there is a virtual short circuit from the battery terminal to the positive lead on the starter. There is no such thing as too much current being allowed to flow to the starter. The starter resistance dictates how much current flows thru its windings.

In a properly functioning starter system, all the circuit resistance ( 99% of it anyway ) is in the starter windings. High current flows thru the windings and is usually dissipated evenly across the windings. If the brushes on the starter commutator are pitted or the commutator is worn unevenly, a lot of sparking (heat) develops at the brushes and can easily smoke the brush holder and commutator area. Think arc welding at 50 amps - that kind of smoke.

Replace the starter.

Excellent wiring by the way.

All the red wiring on the back of the ignition switch can be labeled by printing out terminal designations (B,S,I,A, etc) on a laser printer - labels can be laid lengthwise on the wire and covered over in CLEAR heat shrink tubing. That way each wire can be identified in the future.

Something like I did on one tractor a while back.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?...=0entry135968

Or just rewire in a 5 pin connector - get them from Stens or NAPA.

[C-160 Tractor 1]

great idea on labeling the wires for the future.

Also someone mentioned the other wire on the amp meter. Yeah I didnt replace it, it looked ok but now that you mention it I am going to just replace that as well.

So if the starter was working I believe this puppy would be running like a champ. lol

I took the starter off today opened it up.

Lots of black particles stuck to the magnets.

The brushes where like .25" thick, and had good springs under them.

(not sure how to put it back together now because the springs popped the brushes up)

anyway I know a little about coils from my electronics background and I noticed the insulation on the wire windings was cracked and split in a lot of spots.

I don't think that is good.

I know if any of those touch it would mess it up.

Also I didn't see any cracks in the magnets, and brushes looked good.

So I think it's the actual windings smoking?

what you think?

What would be a good place to get a new one at a good cost?

thanks gents

[C-160 Tractor 1]

Looks like Ebay has them for 47 plus 12 shipping for aftermarket replacement.

so 60 bucks.

Ok I will save for that.

next few pay checks are tied up. lol

[gwgdog66 23]

Not sure about the solenoid, my original on my 74 doesn't look quite like that one. Those starters can be a pain, but mostly because they are so small. My brother made up some new words when we did one of his, not good words either.

Those were colorful metaphors

The starters can be rebuilt, Just make sure you have the right tools to do the job, and two extra hands don't hurt either.

I see now that your windings have breaks. It's probably going to be cheaper just to replace it.

[Save Old Iron 1,573]

Also someone mentioned the other wire on the amp meter. Yeah I didnt replace it, it looked ok but now that you mention it

the wire windings was cracked and split in a lot of spots.

I don't think that is good.

I know if any of those touch it would mess it up.

The current that flows to the starter DOES NOT flow thru the ammeter so I would not be so quick to blame the one wire that you did not replace. The starter current flows directly from the + battery terminal to the starter relay, directly thru the relay to the starter and then right to chassis ground and the - battery terminal. No ammeter involved there.

Your right on the money about the windings. Any noticeable discoloration indicates overheating and certainly any cracking of the insulation is just an indication of old age or repeated severe overheating. A rebuild or replacement is needed.

Magnets are iron and brushes are carbon/ copper - so they will not smoke.

Brush holders may smoke but the "paint" or enamel coating on the armature wiring will definitely smoke. Your overheating "paint" on copper wiring.

I'm certainly not the one to ask about the best deal on parts or the correct part #. My expertise stops quickly after the diagnosis is done.

:USA:

[6wheeler 670]

I think the starter is definately the culprit here. Perhaps it got a hold of that COORS LIGHT on the floorboard and decided it was time to party done enough work for a lifetime . Great job on the pictures and the wiring(looks like the electric tape mfg's won't make a living at your place). Have fun Pat

[tgranthamfd 29]

Never said the amp wire was the culprit here. Just said it could cause problems down the road, and it can, had it happen. I think there could have been some miscommunication. Sorry if anyone thought I meant that the amp wire was causing the starter to smoke, even I knew better than that. :USA:

[Save Old Iron 1,573]

Sorry if anyone thought I meant that the amp wire was causing the starter to smoke

Terry,

that was not a criticism of your wire comment.

I just did not want anybody to start thinking 2 + 2 = 5.

The connection you mentioned is very critical, carries heavy current at times and as you said, even a small issue with this connection can cause some wacky electrical issues to happen.

Looking back at that picture , I was concentrating on the regulator connections. When I went back and looked again - Yep, that one could use a little spiffing up too.

:D

[tgranthamfd 29]

Sorry if anyone thought I meant that the amp wire was causing the starter to smoke

Terry,

that was not a criticism of your wire comment.

I just did not want anybody to start thinking 2 + 2 = 5.

The connection you mentioned is very critical, carries heavy current at times and as you said, even a small issue with this connection can cause some wacky electrical issues to happen.

Looking back at that picture , I was concentrating on the regulator connections. When I went back and looked again - Yep, that one could use a little spiffing up too.

2+2=5 You mean it's not? OH NO!! I know everything is always good on here. :wh:

[C-160 Tractor 1]

Thanks again all!

Happy Fathers day as well!

So today I finally got around to ordering the starter motor .

I got it for $60 shipped.

It's made for my K341 and it's a 10 tooth.

I cannot wait for it to come in and report back how it works.!

thanks again for the help.

I always appreciate it.

[rickv1957 77]

Let us know how it works! Rick

[Lane Ranger 11,681]

My brother painted a Wheel Horse Massey Ferguson red and black which is more of an orange red. It came out real nice and is a lot brighter color than the old wheel horse red.

Here are two photos of it:

:thumbs:

[Daddy Don 911]

good looking B-80 :thumbs:

[C-160 Tractor 1]

thanks that looks great!

so just to let you all know I got it back up and running!

drove my son and me all around the lawn.

[Save Old Iron 1,573]

Looking good !

Another fix in the plus column.

[Save Old Iron 1,573]

Just curious too,

what is this little LED indicator for ?

[C-160 Tractor 1]

Just curious too,

what is this little LED indicator for ?

the little light indicator is to set the timing.

Also when the motor is running it just flashes really fast. lol

Its like a mini light show. Just kidding.

And yup one more thing checked off the fix list.

Its fun to just driver it around my yard with my son. lol

made a dumb video after getting it running, here I will share.

[tgranthamfd 29]

Nice video. It sounds good. I have one of the aftermarket starters on one of mine and it has never given me any problems. Keep up the good work.