K241AS Money Pit

[rmaynard 15,961]

I bought a C-101 for the engine. Cost me $150.00.

In a previous post I talked about ticking noises and other knocking, so I disassembled the engine and took it to a machine shop for measurements. Here is the verdict.

Cylinder has already been bored to .020 over, need to go to .030.

$75.00 for machining plus $42.00 for piston & rings.

Exhaust valve and guide worn.

$85.00 for valve job plus $20 for valve and $14.00 for guide.

Crank has already been turned to .010 under and is fitted with a .010 under connecting rod.

.020 rods are only available custom-made for about $50.00 plus shipping.

Turn crank - $75.00

Carburetor kit - $12.00

Fuel pump - $38.00

Gaskets & seals $30.00

TOTAL COST $441.00 plus the cost of the engine = $591

Should I do it? Other than breaking down the engine, nothing has been done except carburetor rebuild and fuel pump.

Me thinks I should find a different engine. What's your opinion.

Bob

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

OK

but how are you going to be sure you don't wind up with the same situation on the next engine ?

The $100 tractor is a trap we all fall into.

That would actually make a good project for some doing a total rebuild - to keep track of what the final cost is for their refurb / rebuild /restoration / whatever on their $100 prize they just found.

I just paid $150 for a C-160. Guess I'll keep tabs on it as the rebuild starts later (much later) this year.

[stoneman 10]

that's a tough one bob. i've seen those engines go for as much as 650. restored/rebuilt and like new inside and out. if you do it, at least you'll know what you have. i know you'll maintain it properly, so it should last you for years. still a tough call.

[JimD 3,345]

Bob, whfan74 had some engines for sale awhile back. Here is a link to the thread....

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=16400

the last price mentioned for the k241 was 425.00 i believe. You might want to see if it is still available. If you have the work done, the engine should last a long time. It's a tough call either way, best of luck.

[rmaynard 15,961]

Bob, whfan74 had some engines for sale awhile back. Here is a link to the thread....

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=16400

the last price mentioned for the k241 was 425.00 i believe. You might want to see if it is still available. If you have the work done, the engine should last a long time. It's a tough call either way, best of luck.

Jim,

Yes, I talked to Scott about his engines, but the problem is that if I got one from him, I still have the problem of transportation from Indiana to Maryland.

I am taking the engine to another shop this morning for a second opinion.

Bob

[rickv1957 73]

Bob,unless you know somebody with a known good engine,the rebuild of yours will last another 30 years,Rick

[papaglide 542]

Bottom line is this: can you afford to lay down $441 at this point in time?

If you can and the bills still get paid and the family has food by all means get it done. It would be like having a brand new engine.

If you got to think about it maybe not so good an idea...just sayin'.

Second and third opinions certainly do help.

[rmaynard 15,961]

Bob,unless you know somebody with a known good engine,the rebuild of yours will last another 30 years,Rick

Only problem is, the engine will outlast me.

Bob

[rmaynard 15,961]

Bottom line is this: can you afford to lay down $441 at this point in time?

If you can and the bills still get paid and the family has food by all means get it done. It would be like having a brand new engine.

If you got to think about it maybe not so good an idea...just sayin'.

Second and third opinions certainly do help.

Good point. Money is not a problem, but it is always a concern.

Bob

[rmaynard 15,961]

Just got back from the second opinion machine shop. Here is the verdict.

Bore the cylinder to .030 over. Replace piston & rings. Replace and face exhaust valve and reface intake. Replace connecting rod with new .010 under. Leave crankshaft alone.

Total machine work - $110.00

Total parts - 92.00 & S&H - $10.00

Total - $212.00

Add in what I already have:

Carburetor kit - 12.00

Fuel pump - 38.00

Total - $262.00

Sounds a lot better to me already.

Bob

[W9JAB 156]

:D

That don't sound bad at all Can you post the name or link of who

this is may what to use it some day. :USA:

[multihobbyguy 35]

If you can't post the name(not sure on the rules), could you PM the name of that machine shop to me, Thanks Chris.

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

Bob,

when these folks are quoting prices, are they actually inspecting the crank journal for fit and finish and checking the clearances in the valve guides, etc?

Although the 2nd price sounds more "agreeable", are we leaving out $200 of necessary machine work that will either compromise the longevity of the rebuild or ultimately show up on the bill anyway as work needed and uncovered during the actual rebuild.

Quotes with varying prices for labor don't surprise me but when quotes don't match up when empirical inspection of the major engine parts has been done - well, that worries me a whole lot.

How is it that two experts, given the same engine, see two very different plans of attack. Its easy to say #1 maybe be "ripping you off". It could also be #2 is incompetent or lacks experience.

I know this doesn't help but it is the voice of experience from someone who has travelled down the "cheap road" a few times and had to pay more than if the right route was taken first off.

[stevasaurus 23,107]

You know Bob...it is either a hobby or you need the tractor. I only know of one hobby that pays for itself (in fun and investment) homemade wine making. You may never get out what you put into a tractor...except the knowledge that you learned and got to use it for another 40+ years. Priceless.

You could put your money into a lot less then a horse. Want to see my stamp collection ?

[JimD 3,345]

You know Bob...it is either a hobby or you need the tractor. I only know of one hobby that pays for itself (in fun and investment) homemade wine making. You may never get out what you put into a tractor...except the knowledge that you learned and got to use it for another 40+ years. Priceless.

You could put your money into a lot less then a horse. Want to see my stamp collection ?

If you work on the stamp collection AFTER you've had some wine, Id love to see it. :wh:

[linen beige 14]

Replace connecting rod with new .010 under. Leave crankshaft alone.

There is certainly nothing wrong with this approach, IF you know FOR SURE the crank journal is within specs and not scratched. However, this connection IS the engine. I would be very cautious about going this route.

I would present the second guy's findings to the first guy and see what he says.

[rmaynard 15,961]

Thanks for the input. All advice will be taken into consideration before a final decision is made.

Bob

[The Toolman 22]

If he (the 2nd guy ) is wanting to use a .010 under con rod, that crank would really hafta be ate up by the other rod an would most certainly need turned to smooth it out IMO.

That $425 engine already done can be truck freighted cheaper than ya think I'll bet....

[rmaynard 15,961]

If he (the 2nd guy ) is wanting to use a .010 under con rod, that crank would really hafta be ate up by the other rod an would most certainly need turned to smooth it out IMO.

It already has a .010 under rod. The crank is smooth as silk. He thinks that a new .010 rod might tighten it up a bit. After much conversation with others, I am beginning to think that I disagree.

Bob

[The Toolman 22]

If he (the 2nd guy ) is wanting to use a .010 under con rod, that crank would really hafta be ate up by the other rod an would most certainly need turned to smooth it out IMO.

It already has a .010 under rod. The crank is smooth as silk. He thinks that a new .010 rod might tighten it up a bit. After much conversation with others, I am beginning to think that I disagree.

Bob

Ahhhhh, now I remember from reading the first post yesterday..... sorry

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

He thinks that a new .010 rod might tighten it up a bit. After much conversation with others, I am beginning to think that I disagree.

When crank journals are at issue, my old master had great advice

Don't THINK

[rmaynard 15,961]

When crank journals are at issue, my old master had great advice

Don't THINK

Thank you Master.

Bob

(and thanks Mike)

[stoneman 10]

When crank journals are at issue, my old master had great advice

Don't THINK

Thank you Master.

Bob

(and thanks Mike)

should that be . . . it's easy, even a wookie could use it so

and, plastiguage i has . . . thank master SOI! you . . . ? :USA:

[MikesRJ 555]

Or perhaps ...

Ooh, ahr, ohr, aaaaawwwwwwwwww!

[rmaynard 15,961]

Plastigage, Yoda and Wookies aside, I have decided to do the humane thing and put this engine out of it's misery.

There will be no surgery, and no new parts.

If anyone is interested, I will bring all of the pieces with me to the WHCC show. If you would like to make me an offer, no reasonable ones will be refused.

Also included with the engine will be the shaker cradle, and the frame mounting bars.

Don't get me wrong, this engine is totally rebuild-able. I just don't have the time to do it now if I want to get my B-100 finished before the show.

What am I doing for an engine you may ask? I have purchased a K241S-46756D, removed from a good running B-100. I have my fingers crossed that this one is truly a "good" running motor.

Bob