K241 Valve Ticking

[rmaynard 16,301]

Now that the carburetor is fixed, I've moved on to the ticking noise.

Seems to be some significant valve noise going on here. Watch the video and take a listen:

I checked the valve gaps and found the following:

Exhaust: .020" Manual says range is .017/.019

Intake: .006" Manual says range is .008/.010

I reset to:

Exhaust: .017"

Intake: .008"

No difference in sound afterward.

I checked the points and regapped them to .020.

The more I run it, the more it is blowing smoke.

Maybe time for a rebuild kit?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bob

[rickv1957 75]

Bob ,it may be possible the noise you are hearing is piston slap,Rick

[The Toolman 22]

Now that the carburetor is fixed, I've moved on to the ticking noise.

Seems to be some significant valve noise going on here. Watch the video and take a listen:

[url=http://s751.photobucket.com/albums/xx160/rdmaynard/B-100%20Restoration/?action=view

[rickv1957 75]

I often wonder if it would have been cheaper to just buy one from somebody that is already restored. ...

Ron,but then you would miss all that fun working on your tractor! Rick

[rmaynard 16,301]

With all valve adjustments to specs, I decided that something was wrong, since the noise persisted, and I was burning a lot of oil. So I pulled the head.

Not too bad looking, but there was some carbon and a lot of oil sitting on the piston.

The cylinder looks good. No appreciable wear. and it doesn't look like any blow-by from the rings.

The only thing that I can see is that when the exhaust valve is fully open, I can move it side-to-side, like either the stem is worn, or the guide is worn.

That would account for the oil, but would it also cause a lot of noise?

Bob

[MikesRJ 558]

"Re-Build it and it will run!" - Field of Dreams

[rmaynard 16,301]

Bob ,it may be possible the noise you are hearing is piston slap,Rick

What causes piston slap? I know my wife had piston slap in her Subaru Outback and the dealer replaced the entire short block, but in an engine like this, will a new piston correct slap?

Bob

[MikesRJ 558]

All internal combustion engines have a certain amount of "piston slap". Excessive piston slap is cause by excessive clearance between the piston and cylinder bore.

Taking the engine appart and taking the block and crankshaft to a machine shop;

having the bore checked for size and re-bored/honed if necessary;

having the crank journal measured and re-sized if necessary;

ordering the appropriate "Master Rebuild Kit" (Piston/Rings and Connecting Rod sized appropriately to the previous findings and re-sizings);

will correct the issue in a small internal combustion engine.

Based on what you've already posted I would suggest the above and also replacing valves, seats, guides and springs.

You can perform the rest of the engine inspection and reassembly yourself. Probable total cost: under $300.00 with machine work included.

My 2 cents ...

[Ken B 3,189]

Have you ever run the motor with the air cleaner assembly on it? If so was it just as noisy?

[rmaynard 16,301]

Have you ever run the motor with the air cleaner assembly on it? If so was it just as noisy?

No, I did not run it with the air cleaner on. However, I did run my other K241 on the B-100 with the air cleaner off and it was quiet compared to this.

Bob

[rmaynard 16,301]

Here's the latest. I removed the oil pan. The connecting rod did not seam to have any play in it. I will get some PlastiGage and check to see if it is within tolerance.

I removed the cap and slid the piston out. The only visible wear to the piston was at the very top of the side that faces the valves. The wear is from the top to the first ring. Here is a picture:

The connecting rod had no visible play, or play that could be felt while pushing or pulling. The wrist pin is also tight. The connecting rod bearings looks good, but as I said, I will PlastiGage it to see for sure.

With the deep knock that I heard, I was expecting to see some real wear.

Next episode will be when I remove the valves.

Bob

[rickv1957 75]

The piston is burnt and gone,that would make some noise,Rick

[MikesRJ 558]

"Rebuild it and it will run!"

[buckrancher 2,694]

The oil burning issue could very well be at the previous owner removed

the piston from the bore and did not hone the cylinder before reinstalling

the piston and rings I have never seen a engine not burn oil if that was done

but you still should have all compoents checked for size and replace what is needed

the clicking sound may be carbon build up on the valve stem/guide from all

the oil burning (valves stick a little)

I would replace the piston and rings and rod even if the cylinder does not need boring and do a valve job :D

[nichocli 0]

I have found on some Kohler's with that knock it is the camshaft end play. I don't recall the speck on this (it has been too many years) Kohler use to sell shims to correct this. What happens when the tappets roll over the lobes on the cam it causes the cam to slam back and forth against the block and make a nasty knocking noise.I have found that the block was not milled correctly and when you try to take up extra end play it may be tight on one end and real loose on the other. Also the camshaft bore and pin will ware and cause some noise. It might be worth a check while you have the engine apart. I don't have a lot of experience with wheelhorse but I a very familure with kohler since that green stuff used them. I hope this helps Good luck Cliff N

[rmaynard 16,301]

Thanks for that info Cliff, and welcome to the forum.

Glad to have you aboard.

Bob

[rick 257]

The wear pattern on the piston is indicative of a loose fitting piston, in other words,

the piston is rocking in the cylinder bore which may be causing the knocking noise,

aka: piston slap.

[mavfreak 11]

I agree with the others on here. Its your piston banging around in there. The valves don't make the kinda knock your describing. And I would guess that your cylinder is worn egg shaped but not noticeable with eye. I would check bore.

[rmaynard 16,301]

The results of the measurements indicate that the cylinder is cone shaped. It's already bored to .020 over and needs to go to .030. Plenty of room in a K241 for that since it's a K301 block.

The crank pin is worn more in the middle than on the ends. Could be turned to .020 under and a new custom-made rod installed.

The exhaust valve is worn, and needs to be replaced. Intake valve needs to be refaced.

It's totally rebuildable, and would be a great engine, but I don't have the time now.

So, if anyone is interested in the engine, I will sell it, along with the shaker cradle and mounting bars. I will bring it to the WHCC in June if you are interested.

Bob