Thoughts on Front Wheel Bearings

[rmaynard 15,964]

I am looking to replace all four front wheel bearing on my B-100. The Toro part number is 110513.

There are a lot of after-market bearings out there that use the 110513 number, and many of them are the closed-back type.

My feeling is that since the original bearing had an open race in the back that allowed the grease to enter, that is what I should use.

Any thoughts on the closed back bearings?

Bob

[tarcoleo 119]

WH C-Series front wheel bearings that I know are a very simple low-speed

type. They are common to such other uses as garden wagons, wheel barrows, and

off-road utility trailers. I'm guessing they are the same for your machine. Such

bearings are easily obtained from go-cart parts suppliers, and usually fit 3/4" axles.

Check Northern Tool Co.

Tom in RI

[walking horse 0]

hi you can take a ice pick and take the rubber seal out of the back side and you can grease them i have done that

[Kelly 1,031]

Just my 2 cents worth but I buy sealed bearings and don't worry about having to grease them, I found my local JD store sells them the cheapest, about $8 each and the bearing has a machined outer race not the cheap tin stampings you get at TSC stores but they are only $3 each, I really like not having to grease the bearings on my restored rims, my NOS center caps don't get stained with the grease, and no grease on my nice new painted wheels but that is just me B)

[rmaynard 15,964]

Just my 2 cents worth but I buy sealed bearings and don't worry about having to grease them, I found my local JD store sells them the cheapest, about $8 each and the bearing has a machined outer race not the cheap tin stampings you get at TSC stores but they are only $3 each, I really like not having to grease the bearings on my restored rims, my NOS center caps don't get stained with the grease, and no grease on my nice new painted wheels but that is just me

Interesting take on the subject.

Giving a little more thought to the subject, I have determined that I am going to use the open-back bearings. Here is my reasoning:

The bearings themselves should not need lubrication since they are already lubed and the wheels are running at a very low speed, however, the reason that there is a grease fitting on the wheel is to insert grease. Now, is the grease for lubrication? Yes, but also it is meant to keep water out. If you have the hub and bearings packed with grease, you won't have to worry about snow and rain getting into the bearings.

I can clean the grease off the wheels and since my hub covers are red and the grease I use is red, there is no staining.

However, if the tractor is a "show queen", there is probably no need for grease, and a sealed bearing would be all you need.

Bob

[sorekiwi 761]

I'm with Kelly on this.

Sealed bearings - fit and forget them for the next 20 years. I always give the axle a wipe of grease when assembling it stop the bearings rusting onto the axle.

I love how nice wheels look after painting them, but I hate painting them, and I hate grease on them...

[HorseFixer 2,013]

Bob, Funny you should mention this! I was just at motion industries today and picked up 8 enough to do 4 wheels and I paid 7.14 ea and they were the ones with the open Race in back like you mentioned. I would prefer those for the reason you metioned grease does get in and they can be cleaned and repacked! Hey why not have serviceable types? After All I Agree With Your Reasoning On Keeping The Water Out! I have changed hundreds of sets of bearings being in THE HVAC INDUSTRY for 30+ years and serviceability is the way to go! Just my 2 cents worth. Oh and the other stuff is to repair a PTO which I have enough stuff to do 3 at $24.38 cents ea + the govenors cut, for two bearings and a seal Cheers Duke

[rickv1957 73]

Kelly,great idea!!,Rick

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

So....... explain to me how you're going to get grease to fill the inside of a single-side sealed bearing without pushing the seal out of the opposite side?

The grease will take the path of least resistance - which is out between the spindle and the inner race. (which is perfect for when you have to remove the wheel assembly later - at least the bearings won't be seized to the spindle)

If automobiles can use fully-sealed, permanently-lubricated wheel bearing assemblies that are good for well over 100K miles in rain, snow, salt, and heat at sustained highway speeds, I would think that a bearing would hold up fine @ 7mph or less on a garden tractor for a very long time.

[WH nut 553]

I like the sealed bearings myself, you will never wear one out

[rmaynard 15,964]

So....... explain to me how you're going to get grease to fill the inside of a single-side sealed bearing without pushing the seal out of the opposite side?

The grease will take the path of least resistance - which is out between the spindle and the inner race. (which is perfect for when you have to remove the wheel assembly later - at least the bearings won't be seized to the spindle)

If automobiles can use fully-sealed, permanently-lubricated wheel bearing assemblies that are good for well over 100K miles in rain, snow, salt, and heat at sustained highway speeds, I would think that a bearing would hold up fine @ 7mph or less on a garden tractor for a very long time.

TT,

I am not sure why the seal on the front side doesn't blow out, but on a tractor with OEM wheel bearings, have you ever had a seal blow out? I haven't. The OEM bearings are open back. I am not an engineer, but I assume that there is enough "path's of least resistance" that the grease will find it's way out without damaging the seals.

We all love the simple engineering of the Wheel Horse, and I trust the engineers that designed the "front spindle/bearing/hub/grease-fitting assembly" that has worked for years and is still being used.

Bob

[dclarke 4,076]

Just my 2 cents worth but I buy sealed bearings and don't worry about having to grease them, I found my local JD store sells them the cheapest, about $8 each and the bearing has a machined outer race not the cheap tin stampings you get at TSC stores but they are only $3 each, I really like not having to grease the bearings on my restored rims, my NOS center caps don't get stained with the grease, and no grease on my nice new painted wheels but that is just me

i like kelly's idea on these bearings. grease stains and the dirt it attracts always bugged me. can you come up with a j.d. part number for those bearings kelly?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

I am not sure why the seal on the front side doesn't blow out, but on a tractor with OEM wheel bearings, have you ever had a seal blow out? I haven't. The OEM bearings are open back. I am not an engineer, but I assume that there is enough "path's of least resistance" that the grease will find it's way out without damaging the seals.

The seal doesn't blow out because the grease pushes out around the spindle and makes a huge mess on the outside of the wheel. (see many of the above posts)

If it's pushing out around the spindle, it is not going into the bearing - which is my point.

You might as well just hold the grease gun tip on the outside of the wheel and pump until you make a mess.

[tarcoleo 119]

I'm with you Terry. Why not keep it simple? The bearings below have been

in my C-111 for 16 years and with greasing once a year will last another 16.

Go easy on the gun and the mess will be slight.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/sto...31468_200331468

Tom in RI

[rick 246]

I have been following this thread with interest, and I am going to replace the bearings on my C-100 with the sealed bearings I have on hand.

I got them from my local NAPA dealer(I have a business account there).

I shim the wheels to minimize end play(0 to .015), so I will have to put a little grease on the shim pack to prevent corrosion.

[rmaynard 15,964]

I started this thread expecting to get a mixed reaction, and I did. I appreciate all of the input. Each of you have valid points.

I have a brand new set of Stens 215-210 open-back bearing that I intend to use. These are what my local Toro dealer is selling as OEM replacements for the 110513 bearing (which is an open back).

So I guess I will be greasing up the front wheels and keeping a rag handy for cleaning the horses feet.

Bob

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

I have a brand new set of Stens 215-210 open-back bearing that I intend to use. These are what my local Toro dealer is selling as OEM replacements for the 110513 bearing (which is an open back).

You're probably gonna want to hit me, Bob - but if those 215-210's are the ones I'm thinking of, (the inner race protrudes out past the outer race by about 1/16" and the outer "shell" is more like stamped tin than machined steel) they are nothing but low-quality imported junk - but they do make good fishing sinkers.

The good front wheel bearings are real (heavy) ball bearings.

If you don't want to pay Toro's price, Stens does have an "equivalent" to them under part number 230-128

[rmaynard 15,964]

- but they do make good fishing sinkers.

TT,

When the weather breaks, maybe we can go fishing together.

Bob

[tarcoleo 119]

TT-

The bearing you called out at Stens is a sealed wheel bearing, and as such

you have indicated that it cannot be greased through the grease fitting.

Sooooo, I assume you believe the bearing has sufficient grease new from

the factory so as to need no other lube during its life. Correct?

I would argue that bearings that can be lubed during use, like those in

mower deck spindles, give more peace of mind than so-called permanently

greased ones. But that may just be me.

I like fishing too.

Tom in RI

[sorekiwi 761]

I would argue that bearings that can be lubed during use, like those in

mower deck spindles, give more peace of mind than so-called permanently

greased ones. But that may just be me.

The other argument in favor of sealed bearings is that since they are so well sealed, they keep a lot more of the crap out of them.

We've probably all seen the drive belt idlers with worn out sealed bearings in them, but I would argue that that is a ridiculously small bearing, in a higher speed application. The wheel bearings in our horses really arent working hard at all, and I believe they get killed by dirt and water getting into them.

And those little plastic bearing caps help a lot too!

I probably havent fished in 30 years!

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

One more twist here guys - let's pretend there will (at some time) be a piece of grit in the Zerk grease fitting. You crank in a few shots of grease , the new grease forces the remaining dust/ dirt into your setup.

The crud now has a choice - enter the back of a greaseable bearing or bypass the sealed bearing.

Also consider what we expect to be the "life of the bearing". A high quality machined, sealed bearing lasting 15+ years vs a lower priced stamped, open backed bearing which predictably may become grumpy years earlier.

What were the original design considerations of the manufacturer ?

Some manufacturers will purposefully use less expensive parts to gain a price / sales advantage in the real world. Especially when replacement of this part is so simple and quick to accomplish. Every design group I have been associated with would always go for the 10$ per tractor savings and leave it the dealer to reap extra income from replacing a $5 part and make $50 in labor.

Especially when there is no safety liability involved.

Folks, that's what is REALLY DISCUSSED in design meetings. "Let's be the best out there" - well that's a message for the marketing groups to convince you of, not the design group. Cynical, yes, but absolutely real world.

That's what I think, but I do I have my limitations

[rmaynard 15,964]

So what are you really saying Chuck?

Bob

[HorseFixer 2,013]

So....... explain to me how you're going to get grease to fill the inside of a single-side sealed bearing without pushing the seal out of the opposite side?

Thats simple! The bearings are allways greased before installing and will stay greased as long as grease can contact them. They will pull in new grease while they are spinning. thats the answer I got when I asked, now you know! B)

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

I do not subscribe to the "that's the way it was originally designed, they know best and therefore there is no better way to do it" premise.

35+ years repairing other folks' "well thought out / none better" designs have given me the street cred to chime in on this one.

that and the fact I could have replaced 2 sets of these bearings in my tractors in the time it takes to type this post !!

Same advice I give my kids - use your head for something besides a hat rack - make your best decision and be willing to live with the consequences. And don't over-think it as other gremlins always sneak in and change the game rules after the play begins.

Off to check my E-tank to see whats cooking this week.

[chris11 184]

I think save old iron has hit it right on the button. Hey Chuck did you get any of that snow?