C-141, no start at the key but...

[nyquil junkie 308]

but... put power to the S post on the solenoid, it starts and runs. 

I checked the safety switches, the PTO the clutch (its a stick shift) and the seat. all have continuity when ON.

 

Now while its running, if you are in the seat, and start the PTO, all good keeps running. Stand up while its running w the PTO on, it turns off. Just like it should.

 

I checked continuity along all the wires, they all are intact. 

 

When you turn the key to START, only @8v goes to the solenoid, and you get a weak tick from it.

 

Now, this points to a bad ignition switch, correct? (before I go buy one.)  The START position of the key should send a strong 12v to the S post on the solenoid if I read the charts right...

Sometime clicking the key to start actually sends nothing to the S post. Most of the time its less than 8v.

 

My thinking is the ignition switch is not making good contact in there.

 

If Im on the wrong track, feel free to point it out...I'd appreciate it.

 

 

[WHX?? 57,040]

Double ... No triple check grounds.

[ebinmaine 79,277]

You're on the right track but remember you're dealing with a DC system so your grounds are going to be extremely important. I would highly recommend,before you spend any money,  that you go through and clean all your terminal ends very thoroughly. Double check your ground that goes from the engine to the frame as well. That's been known to be a problem on those models.

 

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,295]

The START position of the key should send a strong 12v to the S post on the solenoid if I read the charts right...

No the key switch start position sends 12v power to the pto switch.

 

You realize the pto switch has two functions and requires power from the ignition switch for the ignition which sounds like it is working and a separate feed from the ignition switch for the start circuit. You should be able to probe the back of the ignition switch with the wires connected. The wiring diagrams show the rear of the switch to keep it simple.

[nyquil junkie 308]

I'm going out in a bit to clean grounds. Question; Which grounds would prevent the ignition from triggering the solenoid, but wont prevent the engine from starting and running?  Once you hit the S post with a good 12v, it'll start and run fine, and all the safeties function as they should.

 

If its a bad ground, it sounds like its a very specific one.... but I'll clean em all and the connections.

[nyquil junkie 308]

Ok heres a little update... I cleaned a connection, tried the key, over and over along the job. At one point it turned over w the key for a few sec then stopped. The solenoid base was a little loose, I found a couple dirty connectors... bypassed the amp meter because I had a bad meter give me a long bad day with my 8N... did the same thing until I took that meter out of the circuit.

I took the engine grounds and mount bolts loose and cleaned them, and boom, it starts with the key now. How long will it keep starting? I dunno but at least now I know what to go after... 

Knock wood, hope this thing keeps starting ok now.  Thanks for the help!

 

I was going to hit it with the pressure washer but I'm worried itll never run again if  its clean. 

Edited 14 hours ago by nyquil junkie

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,295]

The solenoid base was a little loose

 

Good chance that was the problem - solenoid not grounded.

[Handy Don 16,772]

30 minutes ago, nyquil junkie said:

I was going to hit it with the pressure washer but I'm worried itll never run again if  its clean. 

Pressure washing anything involving electricity is a no no for me.

I clean the horse with a long soft bristle brush, rinse with a low pressure hose, and blow away moisture with my hand-held Stihl blower. And only when the sun is out so I can bake it afterwards. 

[pfrederi 20,748]

I agree I have had more electrical issues stemming from water/corrosin than I have from dust and dirt.  I tend to blow it off with compressed air no water

[nyquil junkie 308]

34 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The solenoid base was a little loose

 

Good chance that was the problem - solenoid not grounded.

 

After I removed it and cleaned/tightened the mount it didn't fix the problem. I'm sure it didn't help being loose.

[nyquil junkie 308]

11 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Pressure washing anything involving electricity is a no no for me.

I clean the horse with a long soft bristle brush, rinse with a low pressure hose, and blow away moisture with my hand-held Stihl blower. And only when the sun is out so I can bake it afterwards. 

 

True. It wont run and cut weeds any better being spotless. I'll air blast all the loose dirt and grass fluff off and dry scrub the crud off.  Why tempt fate.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,295]

Don't know where your battery (-) cable is attached but the engine block is the best location. Then have a ground cable/wire from the engine to the tractor frame and/or sheet metal. Reason being the starter is the largest load the battery will ever see.

[nyquil junkie 308]

The ground from the batt is to a bolt beside the PTO safe switch. then there is another one from the frame to the engine. If I can find a piece of ground wire around here I'll run one right to the engine block.

 

It was working good for a while, now every couple of starts, it wont kick, just that weak tic in the solenoid. If you repeatedly turn the key to start, it'll eventually kick the starter and go.

 

I ordered a new switch, only $10 so... no biggie. if that does the same thing I'll stick a start button on it for a backup... I'll be able to get it running if it konks out 100ft from anywhere.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,295]

Next time play around with the pto lever in the OFF position. Sometimes the linkage and pivot points are worn just enough to prevent good pto switch engagement. Try more pressure left and right and back to see if it affects it.

[nyquil junkie 308]

Will do. Can you even buy replacements for those pto switches anymore?

[lynnmor 8,855]

1 hour ago, nyquil junkie said:

Will do. Can you even buy replacements for those pto switches anymore?

Look carefully for numbers on the switches, most are common Micro Switches that are readily available and Amazon has tons of them.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,295]

 Is this the switch you have? It is the only one that I know of that was a single unit. Others used 2 switches stacked. Click on the switch for more.

 

 

[Bill D 2,937]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

 Is this the switch you have? It is the only one that I know of that was a single unit. Others used 2 switches stacked. Click on the switch for more.

 

 

The gray GT series used a combo PTO switch as well, just in case anyone's interested. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Bill D