416-H vs. 417-A: Which is the better buy?

[fuzzystump 1]

Looking for some advice:

I currently own a 418-A, which I am going to take out of service to do some restoring.
In the meantime, I need to pick up a machine for my regular mowing/snow blowing chores.
There are 2 machines for sale locally that I'm interested in, but not sure which is the better choice:
417-A with 1,065 hours asking $1,300 or best offer, the other is a 416-H with 400 hours $750
Both come with mowing decks (not a factor as I currently have 2 decks)
The 417 has the Kohler Command 18.
416 is powered by the Onan.

I don't know the year of each, but the obvious answer is that 416 is a lot newer - since it was only made in the 90's and the 417 was only produced in 85-86.
I'm leaning towards the 417, even though it's older and has more hours, but I could really use some insight from the members here, as you are much more knowledgeable with respect to the pro's and cons of each.  I don't know much about the Onana engine, but I know the Kohlers have a great reputation.

Any advice/input/knowledge/guidance is greatly appreciated as I'd like to make a decision and pull the trigger before they're... and, as we all know, they tend to sell quick!

Thanks in advance,
Brian

 

[kpinnc 18,403]

The P216 and P218 Onan engines aren't as fickle as the P220 (20hp), but I'm not a fan of Onan either way. Of course if correct 400 hours is nothing. 

 

That being said, 1300 hours on a Kohler twin is getting up there. If it has been meticulously maintained, I would lean that way as well. But seeing would make all the difference for me. 

 

Both being hydros... you're just gonna have to look them over. 

[Tonytoro416 1,370]

I currently have 3 Onan engines. I was like you and very Leary of them when I bought my 416h.  All 3 of my current Onans I’m sure have over 1,000 hours on them. My 416h is my go to tractor. It always starts doesn’t matter how long it’s sat or how cold it is.  I don’t have a picture of the 3rd tractor and engine but it’s a 520. All have been excellent tractors 

[Bill D 2,881]

I too was leary of Onans,  but now I  have two 416H's and a 416-8.   Personally I would go with the 416H.  All of the problems you read about are relatively easy to fix.  With some minor wiring modifications you can prevent burnup issues with the notorious  9 pin connector. 400 hours is nothing.  Buy it and run it, you won't be disappointed.

Edited 16 hours ago by Bill D

[953 nut 66,572]

9 hours ago, fuzzystump said:

The 417 has the Kohler Command 18.

The Kohler Command is a much newer engine so the hour meter reading is probably inconsequential. Wheel Horse began using the Command engines in the very late 1990s and continued to use them up to the end of production. They have a fairly good reputation and the newer replacement engine may be the seller's justification for the higher asking price.

[pfrederi 20,665]

Better check the Spec Number of the Command Pro 18.  They did not have ball bearing crank shafts. More like KT and Magnums only some came with a thrust crank shaft. (had some sort of radial thrust bearing),. most has a "non-Thrust crankshaft.

[953 nut 66,572]

40 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Better check the Spec Number of the Command Pro 18.  They did not have ball bearing crank shafts. More like KT and Magnums only some came with a thrust crank shaft. (had some sort of radial thrust bearing),. most has a "non-Thrust crankshaft.

The newer  Wheel Horses with the two cylinder Kohler Command engine all had electric clutches tied in with the No-Mow in Reverse switching. To my knowledge none would have had the thrust bearings in the engine.

Edited 14 hours ago by 953 nut

[kpinnc 18,403]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

They did not have ball bearing crank shafts.

 

Neither do any Onans. Not on P216, 218, or 220. 

[fuzzystump 1]

Thank you all for the input. “953 nut” makes a good point: the Kohler Command 18 is a replacement motor so the 1,061 hours on the meter is probably inaccurate (for the motor, anyway).
I’ll just have to look at both and go from there, but it sounds like either one would be a good choice, which is comforting to know.

[Bill D 2,881]

2 minutes ago, fuzzystump said:

Thank you all for the input. “953 nut” makes a good point: the Kohler Command 18 is a replacement motor so the 1,061 hours on the meter is probably inaccurate (for the motor, anyway).
I’ll just have to look at both and go from there, but it sounds like either one would be a good choice, which is comforting to know.

I'd go with the 416H if only for the reason that it likely hasn't been modified incorrectly by the previous owner(s).  If the engine swap wasn't done correctly,  you could be in for a world of problems.

[pfrederi 20,665]

Does the 417 have an electric PTO now???  If he ran an regular PTO on the Command I would avoid it.

[ACman 7,726]

Is there different hydro transmissions between the A and The H models ? With one being an Eaton 700 and one being an Eaton 1100 ?  . If I’m thinking correctly I thought I read somewhere that the a 312A and 312H used different hydros . I’m just curious as I don’t know much about the 3/400 series tractors . I’d have to see both in person to see how much wear and tear each have . I wouldn’t be afraid of a Onan with only 400hrs. especially if the maintenance was kept up . 

 

[953 nut 66,572]

4 hours ago, ACman said:

the a 312A and 312H used different hydros

In the case of the 1985 314A it is an Eaton 700 but the 417A and 418A both came with the Eaton 1100 and the 516H had an Eaton 700.  The only hard and fast rule with Wheel Horses is there are no hard and fast rules. 

Here is a bit of information from this manual, some years do not mention 300 series. I have summarized the information below.

Eaton 1100 transaxles began being used on Wheel Horses with the 1981 C-Series, this continued through 1984 on C-Series automatics.

1985 is the year the 300/400 series began and the battel of the "A" and "H" designations began. The 314-A was an Eaton 700 and the 417-A was an Eaton 1100.

In 1986 the 312-A and 314-A both came with the Eaton 700 and the 417-A and 420-LSE both had the Eaton 1100.

1987 was a continuation of the 312-A with the Eaton 700 and the 418-A and 418-C both had the Eaton 1100

1988 was the year they began messing with our minds as far as the "A" or "H" designation went.

The 516-H and 518-H came with an Eaton 700 but the 518-He was equipped with the Eaton 1100 as were the 520_H and 520-HC.

1989 had the 518-H continued with the Eaton 700, the 518-He, 520-H and 520-HC continued to have the Eaton 1100.

In 1990 all listed 300, 400 and 500 models use the Eaton 1100 and this continued to be true through and including 2005.

There is no overlap of the 300 models, if it is a hydro built from 1985 to 1990 it will be an Eaton 700, 1991 and later 300 series hydro units had the Eaton 1100.