Safety Switch Issue

[BHpa 8]

I have a WH 310-8.  I think I'm having an issue with the safety-cutoff switch - the small toggle switch under the seat.  Does anyone know if I can safely bypass the switch by cutting the two wires and connecting them together with a wire nut, or do I need to try and find a new switch? 

 

Or better yet, does anyone know how to test the switch to see if it's still viable before I go to that effort?  I'm not 100% sure this is the problem, but it seems to be.  

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,243]

Guessing this is the switch. It controls the magneto ignition so try it with the wires disconnected. It is a very important switch to have working.

Perhaps the seat is not opening the switch. Can you adjust the switch height?

 

[squonk 46,611]

Those micro switches fail just by looking at them. Most likely junk.

[ri702bill 12,147]

8 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

It is a very important switch to have working.

Yup - that says it all.......

[Handy Don 16,630]

Post a picture of your switch and we can be more helpful. 

[kpinnc 18,276]

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

Guessing this is the switch. It controls the magneto ignition so try it with the wires disconnected. It is a very important switch to have working.

 

I do not know what year model your 310 is, but on the 1987 models the seat switch only engages if the PTO is also engaged. 

 

I had issues with mine once that actually turned out to be one of the two PTO switches. One is part of the interlock for the PTOs engagement, one is for the starting interlock where the PTO must be disengaged. The switches were stacked together, with one providing an open circuit while the other provided a closed one. 

 

Having your backside firmly planted when a snow blower, mowing deck, tiller, or other powered attachment in motion is pretty important. Very few of the members here would recommend removing it. 

[JCM 11,151]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

 

 

Having your backside firmly planted when a snow blower, mowing deck, tiller, or other powered attachment in motion is pretty important. Very few of the members here would recommend removing it. 

[BHpa 8]

Thanks all.  

 

The switch looks identical to the one posted above by gwest_ca.  I agree that it's a good safety switch and I'd like not to bypass it, but I figured if I could bypass it and get the tractor started then I could narrow the issue down for sure.   KpinNC - any suggestions on how I can narrow the issue down between the seat switch and the PTO?  

 

I've been having an issue starting the mower on and off for a bit.  I thought it was the battery.  But the other day even after I hooked my jumper up to it I still couldn't get it to turn.  That's when I noticed the safety switch was stuck (oddly enough in the depressed position).  When I wiggled it loose and then sat on the mower it started right up.  Similar thing yesterday.  Mowing fine then stopped for a quick bite to eat.  When I came back out it wouldn't start.  I checked the switch and it was stuck in the depressed position.  When I unstuck it, then sat down it started up just fine.  Had to shut it off one more time mid-mow and that's when it failed to start no matter what I did.  

 

One question, though.  My switch only has two wire connected in it.  It looks like there is space for 3.  Should there be three?  Could this be the problem?

 

Sorry for just tossing out lots of info, I'm mostly just thinking out loud here since I'm not very experienced with mechanical troubleshooting. 

 

Thanks!!

[kpinnc 18,276]

18 minutes ago, BHpa said:

KpinNC - any suggestions on how I can narrow the issue down between the seat switch and the PTO?

 

I'm fairly sure the wiring diagram is in our manuals section. You need to search on your specific model and year. The tag under the seat will have a part and serial number for your machine. 

 

For my 1987 model 310, the clutch switch, PTO, and low oil were required to be closed to allow starting. 1987 was the first year of the Magnum 10 engine, so the entire ignition system was different. 

 

In other words the clutch had to be depressed, PTO disengaged, and the oil float had to all be in the proper position to send 12v to the starter solenoid.

 

The seat switch had no affect until the engine was running and the PTO was engaged. It was a completely different interlock circuit. 

[Handy Don 16,630]

30 minutes ago, BHpa said:

One question, though.  My switch only has two wire connected in it.  It looks like there is space for 3.  Should there be three?  Could this be the problem?

 

I can offer some info:

- the switch has both normally open (NO) and normally closed (NC) contacts (they are usually labeled with tiny embossing on the switch body). From that, you can see which two are being used by the connector. 

- I cannot say, without checking the wiring diagram for your model, which contacts your tractor uses. Variation comes from magneto vs. coil ignition and whether or not there is a “safety” relay as part of the ignition system.

- the switches do fail over time, mainly from contamination with dust and/or moisture

 

All of that notwithstanding, the seat switch does not normally prevent starting by itself. Rather, it works in sequence with one of the PTO lever position detector switches. Only if the operator is not seated and the PTO is engaged will the system stop (or prevent starting) the engine. 

Edited Friday at 06:45 PM by Handy Don

[BHpa 8]

Thanks.  I was able to pin down the year - 1990.  And found the wiring diagram.  I'm not certain, but maybe I'm missing a wire.  The switch seems to have Red, Orange, and brown going into it.  Mine only has Brown and orange.  I guess tonight I'll try and dig around and see if I can find a loose red wire in the loom.  

 

Handy Don, - that makes sense about needing the PTO AND being unseated.  I guess I'll also dig around and see what I can figure out with the PTO switch too. 

 

Thank you all.  I'm sure I'll probably be back with a few more questions after I get some time to fiddle with it. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,243]

These should be the correct wiring diagrams. Two wires to the seat switch.

 

[Handy Don 16,630]

16 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

These should be the correct wiring diagrams. Two wires to the seat switch.

 

Hi, gwest, I tried to download these documents and there is a format issue. Can you please check them out?

Thanks!

[953 nut 66,203]

3 hours ago, BHpa said:

 The switch seems to have Red, Orange, and brown going into it.  Mine only has Brown and orange.

If it were a 312-8 there would be a wire from the seat switch to an indicator light panel, the 310 doesn't have one.

10 hours ago, BHpa said:

I'm not 100% sure this is the problem, but it seems to be.  

What is the pr4oblem, you never told us what isn't happening      The seat switch only comes into play if the PTO is in operation. Low oil level is another thing that can prevent the starter from working.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,243]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Hi, gwest, I tried to download these documents and there is a format issue. Can you please check them out?

Thanks!

I just clicked on the fuzzy picture in the link and it takes me to the home page of the file. You can view the wiring diagram by clicking on it or download the 5 page file of detailed wiring which also downloaded fine.

???????

[Handy Don 16,630]

2 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

I just clicked on the fuzzy picture in the link and it takes me to the home page of the file. You can view the wiring diagram by clicking on it or download the 5 page file of detailed wiring which also downloaded fine.

???????

Yep, now it works like a charm! Thank you. 

When I first downloaded it came with a “.download” suffix and MacOS treated it like a package that it couldn’t open. Oh well.

[BHpa 8]

17 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If it were a 312-8 there would be a wire from the seat switch to an indicator light panel, the 310 doesn't have one.

What is the pr4oblem, you never told us what isn't happening      The seat switch only comes into play if the PTO is in operation. Low oil level is another thing that can prevent the starter from working.

Long story short - it won't even begin to turn over.  

 

I thought it was a battery issue since I solved it a few times by jumping it, but put in a new battery today and nothing.  It's not clicking or anything like if the starter was bad.  In a couple previous instances I was able to get it started after I noticed the seat switch was stuck in the depressed position which admittedly seems odd to keep it from starting, but when I freed it up it started.  This is what caused me to think it's a seat switch issues.  

 

I tried removing the seat switch and using a spare wire to jump the orange and black wires together through the housing but it didn't make any difference - still nothing.  I'm not entirely sure it made a good connection, but I think so. 

 

One other note, this time it died more or less mid-mow.  First I stopped to grab a quick bite of dinner and it wouldn't start.  That's one of the times I toggled the stuck seat switch and then it fired right back up.  Then about 30 min later I stopped to move some things into the garage and it wouldn't start back up. Checked the sweat switch and everything.

 

I'm really at a loss.  If it was the PTO switch you'd think it would still work if I was sitting on the mower.  

I checked the few fuses I saw and they're good.  

 

I'm at a loss for what to check next or where to start digging.  I appreciate all suggestions.

 

Thanks.

Edited 8 hours ago by BHpa

[Handy Don 16,630]

If your tractor is still wired per the diagram, connecting the two seat switch wires together is telling the system that you are NOT in the seat.

 

There is also a clutch interlock (the switch is near the clutch pedal).

So PTO disengaged and clutch depressed should permit starting. If either of these are non-functional or not in the correct position then you won’t even get a click of the starter. 

 

There are two switches that detect the PTO lever position.

It PTO is disengaged and the clutch depressed, the starter can work

If PTO is engaged and the operator is not in the seat, the engine dies.

Edited 6 hours ago by Handy Don

[BHpa 8]

So I ran down a few leads and it appears that it is a bad solenoid.  I jumped the two terminals of the solenoid with a screwdriver and it turned over, so I'm guessing that's the part I need to replace.  Apparently the not starting and stuck seat switch were inconsequential - sorry about that.  I'm gonna order a solenoid and install and hope it fixes the problem.  If not, I'll be back asking more question.  I truly appreciate all the input from everyone.