I'm Not Sure Why, But I Now Have a B-80

[BradKahler 182]

28 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

This isn’t clear to me, can you explain further how you tested?

Do you have a rectifier bridge or a voltage regulator there? Bridges are easily tested with a VOM using either the DCV setting and a battery or else the diode setting sans battery. But a VR is isn’t really testable with VOM alone--it needs both an AC input and a 12v reference supply. 

Many of the the VRs that I’ve encountered (including on both the Onan P218 and P220) have one of the stator terminals directly tied to the 12v output terminal. That could look like a short. 

 

The Amazon listing refers to it as a rectifier so I am assuming it is a bridge rectifier.  On the B80 rectifier there are no markings on or near the terminals so it is unclear which two are the ac input connectors and which is the B+ connector.  When it was installed, the two AC wires from the stator were connected to the A & B terminals.  The ignition switch was connected to the C terminal.  The original plug was gone and someone had spliced the two wires from the stator to make them long enough to reach.  

 

Using my DVM Diode setting I get the following readings:

 

Negative cable to A and Positive cable to C I get .000 (I get the same reading when I swap the cables) 

Negative cable to A and Positive cable to B I get no reading.  Same if I swap the cables, no reading.

Negative cable to C and Positive cable to C I get no reading.  Same if I swap the cables, no reading.

When testing in Diode mode, I believe I should get 0 in one direction and 1.5 or so in the other direction.  

 

When I switch to Resistance mode I get the same exact readings as in Diode mode.  I've used diode mode before on other projects and it works correctly for those.

 

For a quick test I pulled the connector off of the B100 to test it and the regulator tested good using the Diode mode assuming B is B+ and A and C are the AC inputs.  

 

I believe this regulator is not original, at least I don't think it is.  T

 

 

This the best picture I have of the B100 rectifier.  It looks totally different than the B80 rectifier.

 

 

 

This is the rectifier that I've ordered to replace the B80 regulator.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019DHPM44?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

[Handy Don 15,073]

Agreed not original.

 

Apologies in advance for pedantry below...

 

I”ve never seen a WH Kohler with a rectifier. Tecumseh, yes.

 

People often (simplistically) refer to VRs as rectifiers. However, rectifiers only convert AC to DC. A VR contains a rectifier but also limits the voltage that is charging the battery. An important difference indeed to prevent cooking the battery. What does it do with the excess voltage? It converts it to heat--hence the cooling fins on the stock VR and the need of ALL VRs to have a way of transferring heat out of the device. 

 

Since the tractor originally had a VR then the engine has a stator configured with two wires out to deliver the AC. As I noted before, many VRs link one of the stator terminals to the B+ terminal--if so, across those two terminals expect 0Ω in resistance mode and connectivity in both directions in diode mode regardless of polarity. In that situation, swapping the connections for the B+ and the linked terminal would let the electrics behave normally. Not knowing how that VR is internally wired, I cannot predict how external DVOM-only testing should work or whether it is still viable. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:28 PM by Handy Don

[BradKahler 182]

No apologies needed.  I've not dealt much with small engines, at least when it comes to servicing them so explanations do help.  That info does explain why Diode mode is not really applicable. 

 

What would the reading differences between the B80 and B100 regulators indicate?  Or as you mentioned above,  different regulators could give different readings on a multimeter?  

 

It sounds like the best test is to just try it and see what happens, once I get it rewired that is.  

 

However, probably my biggest question is how do I know for certain which terminals are AC and which is the B+ ?

 

 

[Handy Don 15,073]

8 minutes ago, BradKahler said:

It sounds like the best test is to just try it and see what happens, once I get it rewired that is.  

 

However, probably my biggest question is how do I know for certain which terminals are AC and which is the B+ ?

Yes, testing is the way. The VR only comes into play after the engine in running and a good battery will keep an engine running for at least 30-45 minutes without being recharged. 

Typically, the terminals are labeled. On the one you have, per your labels, I’d guess A & C are stator and B is battery. There is little risk in doing quick tests of different configurations, but a VR does need a viable 12v batter connected to operate properly. 

Before going too far down the rabbit hole, I’d confirm that you are getting voltages from 10 to 35 out of the stator (based on engine speed) without the VR connected. 

[BradKahler 182]

22 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Yes, testing is the way. The VR only comes into play after the engine in running and a good battery will keep an engine running for at least 30-45 minutes without being recharged. 

Typically, the terminals are labeled. On the one you have, per your labels, I’d guess A & C are stator and B is battery. There is little risk in doing quick tests of different configurations, but a VR does need a viable 12v batter connected to operate properly. 

Before going too far down the rabbit hole, I’d confirm that you are getting voltages from 10 to 35 out of the stator (based on engine speed) without the VR connected. 

 

Thanks. 

 

I might hot wire the ignition system tomorrow so I can start the engine.  If I do so I'll check the stator output.  I've been wanting to verify my carb rebuild is good but a bunch of side issues, like burned up wiring,  keep getting in the way.

 

Stay tuned....

[953 nut 62,910]

On 12/10/2025 at 7:14 AM, BradKahler said:

On the ignition switch, the (B)attery connection was on the (I)gnition terminal, the (R)ectifier connection was on the (A)ccessory terminal, the (A)ccessory connection was on the (R)ectifier terminal, and the (I)gnition terminal was on the (B)attery terminal.  Looking at the switch layout diagram it doesn't look like this arrangement should really make any difference but I'll go ahead and wire in the replacement plug to match the wiring diagram.

Could be someone used an ignition switch that was different than the one that was in the wiring diagram and reconfigured the plug to match it. Check the switch in all positions to be sure.

[BradKahler 182]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Could be someone used an ignition switch that was different than the one that was in the wiring diagram and reconfigured the plug to match it. Check the switch in all positions to be sure.

 

The switch is laid out just like the diagram in the operations manual.  Also, I did verify using a meter that each position was active in the appropriate switch positions. 

 

[BradKahler 182]

16 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Yes, testing is the way. The VR only comes into play after the engine in running and a good battery will keep an engine running for at least 30-45 minutes without being recharged. 

Typically, the terminals are labeled. On the one you have, per your labels, I’d guess A & C are stator and B is battery. There is little risk in doing quick tests of different configurations, but a VR does need a viable 12v batter connected to operate properly. 

Before going too far down the rabbit hole, I’d confirm that you are getting voltages from 10 to 35 out of the stator (based on engine speed) without the VR connected. 

 

This morning I jury rigged some wiring so I could start the motor and do some testing.  Once I got it started, that's a different issue that I'll post about shortly, the stator puts out 15 volts at a low idle and upwards of 40 volts when I'm revving the engine.  I connected regulator using my A, B, C designations for reference, battery to B, and AC wires to A & C.  I got zero output from the regulator.  The ammeter was showing a discharge and eventually my battery died.  Once the battery is charged I'll try configuring the regulator the way it was connected when I bought it, which is AC to A & B and battery to C.  

 

[BradKahler 182]

I jury rigged some wiring so I could try and start the engine this morning and had some starting problems.  The first problem is...I don't know what I'm doing...now that that's out of the way, I need some help

 

My first issue was the float needle wasn't working so I changed the float setting to allow a little less gas to enter and that seems to have stopped the flooding issue. 

 

Next, while cranking with choke closed and throttle set to about 1/2 throttle the engine didn't seem to want to fire.  So I tried a squirt of starting fluid and it popped like it wanted to start.  After a couple more tries like that it all of a sudden started idling.  It actually didn't sound to bad.  However when I tried to rev the engine it sputtered and died.  At this point I started adjusting the idle speed screw and found that I hadn't screwed it in far enough.  That helped a little on starting but it still only starts after a small squirt of starting fluid.

 

I'm not 100% sure what I did after that but I remember turning the idle fuel screw in about 3/4 turn with no real noticeable change so I turned it back to 2-1/2 turns as suggested in the manual. 

 

I open the choke once it starts at this point and I'm able to rev the engine and it doesn't really die when it idles down.  It stumbles a little but continues to run.  

 

I tried multiple times to start it and each time it required starter fluid but once started it runs halfway decent. 

 

I hope all this makes some sense to someone.  Anyone care to advise me on what direction to take here?  

[Handy Don 15,073]

Assuming you have the original carb (vs. an aftermarket), it sounds like there isnt enough fuel at start.

The Kohler K-Series Service manual (found in this site’s “files” archive) has the carb setting sequence and tons of other useful stuff. 

 

 

[Handy Don 15,073]

1 hour ago, BradKahler said:

This morning I jury rigged some wiring so I could start the motor and do some testing.  Once I got it started, that's a different issue that I'll post about shortly, the stator puts out 15 volts at a low idle and upwards of 40 volts when I'm revving the engine.  I connected regulator using my A, B, C designations for reference, battery to B, and AC wires to A & C.  I got zero output from the regulator.  The ammeter was showing a discharge and eventually my battery died.  Once the battery is charged I'll try configuring the regulator the way it was connected when I bought it, which is AC to A & B and battery to C. 

Those stator readings are spot on.

You don’t need a long time running the engine with the different VR wiring configs. Test it right away with the VOM as soon as the engine is running. My next guess would be stator on A&B and battery on C. The voltages across the stator connections on the VR should be close to the readings when the VR was not attached. 

[sqrlgtr 1,258]

1 hour ago, BradKahler said:

I remember turning the idle fuel screw in about 3/4 turn with no real noticeable change so I turned it back to 2-1/2 turns as suggested in the manual. 

 

It's been my experience if you don't notice a change while adjusting carb might as well take it off and proceed with a rebuild and/or thorough cleaning of carb. . Im sure that @Handy Don is alot more knowledgeable than me on the electrical part but always thought my 73 12hp no name WH had a rectifier?  Thats what I thought I was told it was but may have misunderstood  

[Handy Don 15,073]

2 hours ago, sqrlgtr said:

Thats what I thought I was told it was but may have misunderstood  

LOTS of folks think of that as a rectifier so it’s very likely you were told “rectifier". If it has cooling fins, or is bolted to the engine shroud exposed to cooling air, it’s a VR. 

 

Your ’73 No Name with a 12hp Kohler has a 15 amp charging system. if you simply convert the AC stator output to DC and connect it to the battery, you’d be trying to cram up to 40 volts into the battery when running at near WOT. The battery would cook to useless in less than an hour (older, non-sealed batteries would see their battery acid boiling off). The VR keeps the charging voltage tamed to no more than 14.5v--safe for the battery. 

 

Some “charge only” engines (Tecumseh and B&S that I’ve personally worked on; some Kohlers are likely the same) have a stator designed to produce lower voltages (typically around 14.5 at WOT) and no more than 3 amps. They use a single diode in the wire to the battery. Together, the lower voltage and the diode prevent the battery from overcharging.

 

An “accessories only” engine stator, without a diode or VR, often powers stuff that works ok on AC. These engines are common on recoil (or 110v AC auxiliary starter) older snowblowers with lights and heated hand grips but no battery. 

 

A few engines have both a charge-only, and an accessories.

 

The Tecumseh H60, HH60 and HH70 do have a stator connected to a diode bridge (aka rectifier). I believe the stator makes 14-ish volts and they can deliver around 5 amps useable for both charging and accessories. 

 

Starter/generator engines also use a VR but it works differently than the solid state ones that came in the 70’s. (Explanation redacted--whew!)

 

So yes, there are quite a few variations on how these engines generate power appropriate for charging and accessories--but very few “rectifiers."

Edited 2 hours ago by Handy Don

[sqrlgtr 1,258]

Thanks for writing all that up and belive  you are absolutely correct. Jogged my memory and think I have went through this wit someone before, may have even been you lol . Anyhows here is a pic of mine.

[BradKahler 182]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Assuming you have the original carb (vs. an aftermarket), it sounds like there isnt enough fuel at start.

The Kohler K-Series Service manual (found in this site’s “files” archive) has the carb setting sequence and tons of other useful stuff. 

 

 

 

Thanks, I do have that manual and used it previously when I was setting the initial idle and main needle settings.  However, looking at the manual again I figure out what I did wrong.  I've been working on both the K241 and K181 carburetors at the same time and I inadvertently set the K181 idle fuel screw to 2-1/2 turns, the same as the K241.  I reset it to 1-1/4 turns and it started.  It did take a little playing with the choke and throttle levers to see what settings worked best but it starts and runs now.  I then set the idle fuel mixture per the manual and it sounds pretty good.  I haven't touched the main fuel mixture screw yet.  I'll wait until I can drive it outside.  I need to do that soon because the gearbox is filled with diesel

 

[BradKahler 182]

3 hours ago, sqrlgtr said:

 

It's been my experience if you don't notice a change while adjusting carb might as well take it off and proceed with a rebuild and/or thorough cleaning of carb. . Im sure that @Handy Don is alot more knowledgeable than me on the electrical part but always thought my 73 12hp no name WH had a rectifier?  Thats what I thought I was told it was but may have misunderstood  

 

It turns out is mostly me not setting the carburetor idle fuel mixture screw properly.  I had just finished cleaning and rebuild it and this was the first startup attempt.  

[BradKahler 182]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Those stator readings are spot on.

You don’t need a long time running the engine with the different VR wiring configs. Test it right away with the VOM as soon as the engine is running. My next guess would be stator on A&B and battery on C. The voltages across the stator connections on the VR should be close to the readings when the VR was not attached. 

 

That's good to hear.  I just finished trying the AC on A & B with C set as B+.  It's still not charging.  I took a look at a picture on Amazon of the regulator that I've ordered and it's pin configuration matches how the wires were connected to my original regulator before I took things apart.

 

Amazon regulator.  At least I know for certain with the new regulator how to wire it.

 

[Handy Don 15,073]

37 minutes ago, BradKahler said:

Amazon regulator.  At least I know for certain with the new regulator how to wire it.

So you might try the VR you have one last time before sending it to the scrap heap.

Unlikely for sure, but recognize that an aftermarket regulator can be DOA. We’ve had member here post experiencing new-but-not-working stuff. 

Edited 49 minutes ago by Handy Don

[BradKahler 182]

4 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

So you might try the VR you have one last time before sending it to the scrap heap.

 

Third times the charm? 

 

Does the regulator case need to be grounded?

 

4 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Unlikely for sure, but recognize that an aftermarket regulator can be DOA. We’ve had member here post experiencing new-but-not-working stuff. 

 

Yeah, I've experienced DOA parts myself.  It's frustrating but unfortunately it's the way things are now.  This regulator is sold by DB Electrical who I believe has a pretty good reputation.   Unfortunately I won't know until the 20th.

 

Thanks for the help.