Tranny parts needed!

[Teddo 49]

Ed, thanks for your input.  I'm presuming your entry point with the drill was from the end of the shaft.  I was picturing a straight square key all this time.    Are the keys readily available at auto parts stores?    Educate me, please.  I thought the set screw was sitting on top of the key.  I take it that it does not or it wouldn't be able to turn up.  Correct?  I guess I don't understand the engineering of using a woodruff key that can turn up!

Edited June 29 by Teddo
additions

[Ed Kennell 41,633]

2 hours ago, Teddo said:

  Would tapping on the key with a small flat punch in the set screw hole have any positive effect?   

I like that idea.    Can't hurt at this point.

[Ed Kennell 41,633]

1 hour ago, Teddo said:

I guess I don't understand the engineering of using a woodruff key that can turn up!

Cost

[mrc 928]

all the guys have given excellent advice.  i find it interesting that both hubs are equally stuck.  a lot can happen in 45-50 years! 

 

i recall someone posting pics where they used a small hydraulic bottle jack mounted sideways in conjunction with a homemade puller like yours to get hubs off.   

 

 

[Teddo 49]

Yep.  Saw that myself. Some of these helpful guys have access to some awesome shops and equipment.  I do pretty good for what I have, tho. I love the ingenious thinking most of these guys have-it's stimulating.  Like most guys, I like the pics, too.  I'll wait a day to see who else chimes in and first try moving the key with a punch.  If that doesn't work, I'll get out the drill.

 

I laid awake last night trying to picture how that key is sitting in the keyway.  Since it is a half moon style, it must sit with the arc toward the shaft and the straight edge against the hub.  Is this correct?  My plan this am was to get online and search for an installation of a hub and see how the key is installed.

[pfrederi 18,596]

19 minutes ago, Teddo said:

Yep.  Saw that myself. Some of these helpful guys have access to some awesome shops and equipment.  I do pretty good for what I have, tho. I love the ingenious thinking most of these guys have-it's stimulating.  Like most guys, I like the pics, too.  I'll wait a day to see who else chimes in and first try moving the key with a punch.  If that doesn't work, I'll get out the drill.

 

I laid awake last night trying to picture how that key is sitting in the keyway.  Since it is a half moon style, it must sit with the arc toward the shaft and the straight edge against the hub.  Is this correct?  My plan this am was to get online and search for an installation of a hub and see how the key is installed.

 

You are correct

 

[Teddo 49]

Thanks pfrederi.  I just watched a couple more vids on youtube and apparently mine is different than theirs.  Their key was a square end approximately 1/4x1/4 x 2in.  My drive shaft keyway does not come to the end of the shaft as you can see in my pics.  It appears that on some shafts the keyway groove comes all the way to the end.  My drilling entry point is about 1/8 '' at the hub keyway groove.

[Teddo 49]

mrc, I find it MORE than interesting that both of them are stuck.  I find it...

[Teddo 49]

I have been online looking for anyone who has captured the process of drilling out a key from a hub and axle on video and haven't found one.  I did find a video of a guy (expert machinist) who had purchased two used hubs that had bad keyway slots and he broached them, making new keyway slots and new set screw holes.  It was interesting but way beyond most homeowner's expertise and ownership of the equipment that it took to accomplish it.  I'm a bit nervous of the damage it can cause to the slot when drilling out a key.  Maybe cutting the hub is a less damaging solution.  Obviously, I don't like to destroy anything.  I'm afraid the seals on the driveshaft may be damaged from the heat I've already used, although I was careful not to get close.  Otherwise, I'd put it back together and use the "HI" gearing only.

[oliver2-44 10,627]

On 6/28/2025 at 11:58 AM, Teddo said:

That is an option, I know.  I'm lacking the 1 1/2" socket which I'm hoping to borrow tomorrow.  

I hope you've gotten this socket. Now put as much force with an impact or (safe) cheater pipe.

One hub on my C160 came off easy,.

I had so much force on the other one it sounded like a shotgun when it finally moved.

The key and keyway were fine, just 55 years of not moving.  Since your going to replace seals anyway, do you have access to a rosebud torch.

It won't hut anything to get it dull red hot.

[stevasaurus 23,253]

Reguardless of which way you go here, you don't want to take a chance and ruin one of two axles and a hub.  The hubs will break easily without cutting all the way into the hub.  Cut your slot and then hit the slot with a cold chisel...bang, you're done.  

   If you try to drill into the keyway, maybe a 1/8" bit will do it without messing up the axle itself.  Woodruff keys are cheap and at any hardware store...they are soft metal also.  

[Teddo 49]

Well, here's where I'm at after today.  I went to a friends house who is a machinist and presented the problem.  We talked optiopns and then got to it.  He is able to broach new keyways and has all the fine machinery we need if we "injure" something.  We drilled out the first keyway and began working to pull off the hub.  Once we got it moving we kept at it.  We spent all afternoon pulling on that thing but finally... the first hub is off.  It fought us all the way. We did the same to the second hub: drilled the keyway and began to pull and pull and pull...until we bent the 1/2in steel bar of the puller behind the hub.  We turned it around and pulled until it did the same thing again.

 

At 9pm tonight we decided, after bending the 1/2' puller bar twice, that we had to create a different puller.  So tomorrow we will go to his shop and make a new puller that has 3/4" bolts instead of 3/8" all-thread and a 1" bar that goes behind the hub.  I'll take some pics tomorrow.  I was too tired to even think about it tonight.  We were both extremely surprised at how hard these dang hubs are coming off.  Just years off being in one place for 45 years, I guess.  We'll be back at it tomorrow and hopefully we don't break anything except for the hold this hub has on the shaft,

[stevasaurus 23,253]

Excellent !!!  "Endevor to Percevier !!!"   Clint Eastwood movie. 

[Teddo 49]

Well, we did create a new part of the puller today.  We got rid of the 1/2"x4" stock with a notch cut out of it for the axle.  It was too weak for the amount of pressure it takes to pull off these hubs.  This is what made the difference of making it hard or making it REAL hard.  After we made a simple change: 2 pieces of 1"x1/2 spaced apart the width of the axle and put behind the hub.  The 2 pieces were installed so they sat with the 1" side "on the flat" so the pressure was against the 1" width of both of them We connected them with 2 small screws just for spacing.  On the front part of the puller we got rid the 3/8" all-thread and machined the puller to accept 3/4" bolts which were just long enough to get 2 heavy flat washers and a nut on the back as it passed between the 2 pieces of 1"x1/2" stock.  

 

Worked like a charm.  No slop in the holes we made and we made it to pass on the outside of the hub, not through any lug holes.  I got a 1 1/2" inch socket to fit the drive screw and let the impact do the work.  It was slow at first-like the width of a hair.  Then it started jumping in 1/32" increments and about 15-20 minutes later it was off!  Fought all the way but it lost the battle!  The only thing we lost were the keys.  Shafts are good and we still have two hubs.     The quality of the tool, not it's cost, makes all the difference.  There is NO way the hub could have taken the pressure if it had been a conventional hub puller pulling on the flange.  It would have shattered.  If this hadn't moved today I would have shopped for a hub and cut it in 3 pieces as stevasaurus suggested.

 

I spent the rest of the day cleaning up the bench and all the tools, getting the case split (easy), and cleaning the larger part of the case.  I taped all the bearings up after cleaning their perimeter with carb cleaner.  I didn't want any residue or junk to get into them.  Bearings all look good and tight.  Amazing after all that time.  Fluid was clean.  No corrosion.  Some light rust at the top of the casing in the corner by the dipstick tube.  ;

 

A word to the wise: Don't grab the impact socket after a continous hard job like this...it gets very, very hot!

[oliver2-44 10,627]

@Teddo So did you find the cause of the Hi/Lo shifting problem.

[Teddo 49]

Not yet, oliver2-44.  Haven't taken out all the gears yet.  After opening the case, I tried shifting to "Lo" using a punch through the linkage and it wouldn't move.  I can see a bit of the shift fork and it wasn't moving.  I'll discover what the cause is tomorrow.  I'vebeen cleaning and inspecting as I go.  I wanted full daylight when I started taking out the detent springs and balls from the other shift forks.  Just in case.  I don't know what to expect but I hope they don't come flyin out!  

Edited Tuesday at 03:48 AM by Teddo
add name

[stevasaurus 23,253]

Outstanding job done !!!!!!!  Unbelievable how those hubs can hang in there.  

A pencil magnet is your friend when playing with the detent parts.

[Teddo 49]

Yep.  Have the magnet handy.  I'm just about to pull the freeze plug out.  Do the guts come flying out or do they roll out?  I've been looking for a disassembly video to hopefully see the progression. I haven't found one.  For reassembly, I have your serirs loaded on the computer.  This will be my reassembly "partner".  Thanks.

[stevasaurus 23,253]

Nothing will fly out !!  That plug is not needed, a finger of axle grease is enough to close the hole.  The spring has the stop inside it with a 1/4" ball on each side.  The balls will fall into the rail holes.  Push the spring and stop through to the outside of the tunnel.  Take a 1/4" drill bit and (by hand) use the bit to clean out the channel.  Done for now.

[Teddo 49]

Thanks for the reply stevasaurus.  I have it out already and I had to do exactly that.  I caught the balls as they came out with the magnet and had to take a drill bit to clean out the channel before being able the get the spring.  Easy-peasy.  

 

Gee-whiz... who would have thought this was the problem!     There it is oliver2-44!

1.  Question for you machinists:  I have this new shift fork and I was contemplating having it welded on the bottom to keek this from happening again.  My machinist friend didn't like the idea because he thinks the heat will take the strength out of the fork, especially if they have heat treated it already.  Ideas?

2.  There is some very light damage to the top of some gear teeth from someone shifting before fully stopping.  It wasn't me!!!    I've seen some similar on the forum and the advice has been to carefully file the burrs off and STOP before shifting from now on.  Probably MY bad.  But I bought it 30 years old.  Figured a light 3 point filing should take off any light burrs.  Any ideas on that?

Now I'm back at it to clean it up and paint her.  Any reason to pull out the reduction gear at this point?  Everything looks and feels good.  Now it's more fun(now that the dang hubs are off).

[Teddo 49]

Question 3.  I've seen seals installed at two different times.  One while the cases are split and shafts are cleaned or after the cases are remarried and slid over the shafts.  Is there a preference?  Thanks.

[Racinbob 11,904]

23 minutes ago, Teddo said:

Question 3.  I've seen seals installed at two different times.  One while the cases are split and shafts are cleaned or after the cases are remarried and slid over the shafts.  Is there a preference?  Thanks.

I much prefer after it's reassembled. Just make sure the shaft is burr free. I don't, but some guys tape over the key slot. I have a little kit assembled with heavy washers for each size shaft. I use a chunk of pvc pipe to seat the seal and the washer assures it's flush with the case. 

[squonk 43,564]

2 hours ago, Teddo said:

 

 

Gee-whiz... who would have thought this was the problem!     There it is oliver2-44!

1.  Question for you machinists:  I have this new shift fork and I was contemplating having it welded on the bottom to keek this from happening again.  My machinist friend didn't like the idea because he thinks the heat will take the strength out of the fork, especially if they have heat treated it already.  Ideas?

 

 

 

Weld it. It's all ready broken.  "You can't spoil a rotten egg!" 

[Teddo 49]

I am referring to the new shift fork.  Oh, for sure I'll have the old one welded for a back-up.  That one is a rotten egg!

 

I also discovered that question 2 is moot.  There is no damage to gear teeth.  I put on my 10x glasses and saw it was made that way.  It is the reverse idler gear.  I cleaned and taped off the bearings in the case then used a parts brush and cleaner to clean the inside.  The outside is ready for paint tomorrow.  Everything else is painted and waiting to be put on a running tranny.

Edited Wednesday at 12:03 AM by Teddo
add pictures

[oliver2-44 10,627]

Question 1:  I took a file to a junk Hi/Lo shift fork and I don’t think it has any hardening heat treatment. 
 

4 hours ago, Racinbob said:

I much prefer after it's reassembled. Just make sure the shaft is burr free. I don't, but some guys tape over the key slot. I have a little kit assembled with heavy washers for each size shaft. I use a chunk of pvc pipe to seat the seal and the washer assures it's flush with the case.