PTO bogs down 16 hp Briggs Opposed Twin

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

When I engage the PTO the engine Boggs down. WOT or idling… makes no difference.

No PTO belt, deck, or load on PTO.

Where do I need to look first ?

PTO bearing ? The bearing does seem a little noisy. But would that bog it down with no load ?

[wallfish 18,143]

Pull that pulley bell off the shaft and take a look inside there. It comes off pretty easily

 

[squonk 43,843]

The outer bearing goes bad a lot. Easy to change. #204RR6

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,492]

You have a thrust bearing between the transmission drive pulley and the engine block also.

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

Pull that pulley bell off the shaft and take a look inside there. It comes off pretty easily

 

 

2 hours ago, squonk said:

The outer bearing goes bad a lot. Easy to change. #204RR6

 

23 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

You have a thrust bearing between the transmission drive pulley and the engine block also.

Hey fella’s

This is a parade tractor at the minute.

Wanting to bring to The Big Show(featured tractor this year).

I am hesitant about more wrenching on it between now and the show. I don’t want to tear something down and then not have it done in time.

Is those bearings probably okay until after the show ?

[Sparky-(Admin) 23,166]

15 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

 

 

Hey fella’s

This is a parade tractor at the minute.

Wanting to bring to The Big Show(featured tractor this year).

I am hesitant about more wrenching on it between now and the show. I don’t want to tear something down and then not have it done in time.

Is those bearings probably okay until after the show ?

 I would think it would be fine since you won’t be engaging the PTO for cruising around. 

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

51 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

You have a thrust bearing between the transmission drive pulley and the engine block also.

So if that thrust bearing is not turning as free as it should, and I engage the PTO, then the less than free rotating bearing could be a load source ?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,492]

14 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

So if that thrust bearing is not turning as free as it should, and I engage the PTO, then the less than free rotating bearing could be a load source ?

I would say so.

 

[Ed Kennell 42,047]

27 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

So if that thrust bearing is not turning as free as it should, and I engage the PTO, then the less than free rotating bearing could be a load source ?

If that bearing is bad enough to bog down the engine, it should get hot real quick.

[Bill D 2,256]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

You have a thrust bearing between the transmission drive pulley and the engine block also.

I have a GT1642 and a GT1800.  Neither one has a thrust bearing.  Here's a picture of the GT1800.  Verify if you have a thrust bearing.  If not, my money's on the PTO bearing.  

Edited May 31 by Bill D

[8ntruck 7,842]

Could be that the short shaft that goes through the pto pulley is contacting the end of the crankshaft.  The stub shaft does not turn, but the crank is turning.

 

Good luck.  Please post what you find and what you did to fix it.

[cleat 7,259]

2 hours ago, Bill D said:

I have a GT1642 and a GT1800.  Neither one has a thrust bearing.  Here's a picture of the GT1800.  Verify if you have a thrust bearing.  If not, my money's on the PTO bearing.  

 

Only the Briggs single cyl has the thrust bearing.

However, as seen in the above picture, the main pulley does sit close to the engine block.

Make sure you have clearance there and that the pulley is tight on the crankshaft and is not getting pushed into the engine block as the PTO is engaged.

 

If you engage the PTO with the engine off you can also verify that the engine can turn over easily by hand (by rotating the PTO pulley).

If the engine turns easily by hand then maybe there is a safety switch issue.

 

 

[Bill D 2,256]

3 hours ago, cleat said:

 

Only the Briggs single cyl has the thrust bearing.

However, as seen in the above picture, the main pulley does sit close to the engine block.

Make sure you have clearance there and that the pulley is tight on the crankshaft and is not getting pushed into the engine block as the PTO is engaged.

 

If you engage the PTO with the engine off you can also verify that the engine can turn over easily by hand (by rotating the PTO pulley).

If the engine turns easily by hand then maybe there is a safety switch issue.

 

 

According to Gary's TSB there are some early models that had external thrust bearings.   I have a hydro pulley from a C161 that is machined for that external thrust bearing.  Apparently the early Briggs twins did not have ball bearing supported crankshafts. 

Edited June 1 by Bill D
Additional clarity

[kpinnc 14,651]

6 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

Is those bearings probably okay until after the show ?

 

If it is the end bearing, I have a couple PTO bells you can try when you get the engines for Bill. 

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

1 hour ago, 8ntruck said:

Good luck.  Please post what you find and what you did to fix it.

Will do.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,492]

Have never seen either but found this in an original parts list

[Bill D 2,256]

6 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Have never seen either but found this in an original parts list

I have actually seen both.  A neighbor has a GT100 that I service.   I recently picked up a C161 8 speed for its engine.   Someone had swapped an 1997 18 HP Briggs into it.   All of the original thrust bearing pieces were swapped as well.  Only time I've seen that on a twin.

[Lee1977 7,215]

It could be the thrust bearing as the PTO puts pressure on it when the PTO is engaged.

Edited June 1 by Lee1977

[ineedanother 1,668]

If you can measure temps, I think it might show where the friction is.

[Bill D 2,256]

Any updates?

[peter lena 9,280]

@Horse Newbiehttps://factorysupplyoutlet.com/timken-204rr6-a4363/?cmp_id=22546029312&adg_id=178229256446&kwd=&device=c&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22546029312&gbraid=0AAAAAC4SZ_--pPhiH3x_FnG4yUdY1IFH2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuvrBBhDcARIsAKRrkjeyVSjVl9f5f75-S7B3LvHco7Izxk0E65X0q9FBE_HdvBJJVvrIVvgaAhrsEALw_wcB    wide rubber side shields , for a clean out and regreasing , bearing gets very hot / load stress failure , like lucas 550 deg  flash point , polyurea  rated , green chassis grease , never had a load failure  , or noisy whine, all my spindles , mule drive , pto related , all re greased , drive belt  spins / drives very easily , pete  

[Bill D 2,256]

The PTO thrust bearing is 109842.  All over online.

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

2 hours ago, Bill D said:

Any updates?

Not yet. As I said, this is currently just used for cruising the strip and impressing the chicks.

I will investigate more when I get home from The Big Show and report back.

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

Just now, Horse Newbie said:

Not yet. As I said, this is currently just used for cruising the strip and impressing the chicks.

I will investigate more when I get home from The Big Show and report back.

 

[Horse Newbie 7,395]

2 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

 

Cruising the strip and impressing the chicks…