Identify and maybe save a Briggs?

[OoPEZoO 566]

So this Briggs came along with Sir Wally, the RJ58 I picked up from Ed last week.  This is also my first time ever messing with a Briggs on anything, so I have zero history with them.  I know its not original to the RJ, but I'm trying to identify it and make an assessment on if its worth the effort.  So far, I have pulled the carb/air filter off and also the tins.  There is a spot on the bottom of the engine tin for an identification plate, but it is long gone......in fact, the whole lower section of the tin is paper thin at best.  Anyway, I can't seem to find any identifiable numbers on the engine at all.  Does anyone have an idea of where I can look or go to potentially figure out what it is?  The motor does spin freely, but I have been hesitant to do more than rock it back and forth, so no idea at this point if it has any compression.  I was tempted to pull the head off, but not before I make sure I can get a replacement head gasket.  I've been scouring Ebay for the past week and haven't seen one that is close enough to take a guess.    In the end, I'm trying to decide if its worth an attempt to get it running or even burn any calories on it at all?  Any advice or comments are more than welcome

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,766]

Those flathead briggs are still pretty common and didn't change a whole lot over the years.  Kinda like the kohlers.  I imagine you could find a head gasket for it.  Any idea of HP rating?  I have an 80s era 5hp briggs that I mess with on a tiller.  I converted it from points to electric coil ignition.  It's really easy to do on these.  If you like older engines and working on them then you can probably figure out parts and they are likely easily available.  But if you just want a worker engine in the 5-8 hp range there are much more financially efficient options, like predator engine from HF and others that you could get new.

 

As for finding a model or serial number you could get a wire brush and go over it well.  Usually these are stamped somewhere on the block or cover.  Could be hard to spot with the residue and crud build up.  Even that carb has a model on it you can see in that picture.  You could get an idea what engine those went on I bet.   

[Rick3478 438]

12 minutes ago, OoPEZoO said:

 

 

Number of head bolts suggests about 5HP.  Dual sheave makes me think tiller with the twisted belt reverse.  There might be numbers stamped into the machined area around the carb and exhaust if you clean the encrustation off carefully.  In general, if you find it to be aluminum bore just trash it, but if it has an iron sleeve you can probably save it.

[OoPEZoO 566]

No clue about the HP.  I'm assuming its down in the 3-8 range, and I'm also assuming its from the late 50's-early 60's.....just due to internet searching and comparing similar carbs, air filter housings, and engine tins.  I'm probably being too overly cautious and should just tear into it for some "fun".  I'm assuming the piston will end up a paper weight and the rest maybe a lamp...LOL.  As far as what I would do with it.  If I can get it running, I will put it back on Sir Wally.  If its not worth the effort, than I guess I'll try and part out whatever is salvageable on the motor and Sir Wally will most likely be going electric.

 

2 minutes ago, Rick3478 said:

 

In general, if you find it to be aluminum bore just trash it, but if it has an iron sleeve you can probably save it.

Excellent advice, thank you.  I'm going to try and clean it up today, look for some more numbers, and probably pull the head to check the bore.  I don't mind spending some time and coin on it if its reasonable.  I enjoy the tinkering time when life actually allows for it.

[ri702bill 9,349]

15 minutes ago, Rick3478 said:

if you find it to be aluminum bore just trash it, but if it has an iron sleeve you can probably save it

Exactly - good advise there...

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,450]

Guessing it is one of these

 

[OoPEZoO 566]

Thanks for the files.  They don't cover exactly what I have here but lots of useful info in there.  I got it partially stripped down without too much drama.  Snapped one head bolt, but its sitting proud enough that I should be able to get it out with some work.  There are no part number markings on anything other than the flywheel, and those have not been helpful yet.  From my internet searching today, I still think it is late 50's-early 60's, and I think I have narrowed it down to a model 14 and in the 6HP range.  I've seen enough pictures and videos that I think I'm convinced.  The ones I've seen that are complete even have the same matching fuel tank that was on Sir Wally, which I knew wasn't original to him. I just have no idea what series it is or what specifically it came from. 

 

I took some rough measurements of the bore/stroke and came back with this

Bore 2.75"ish

Stroke 2.375"ish

That makes it about 14.11 cubic inches

 

I believe I have eyeballed the head gasket that came off of it to be a B&S part number 270340, and that led me to a potential 143302 engine model number.  Problem there is, I started cross referencing all the 14xxxx engine numbers I could find and while they all take the same head gasket, things like replacement pistons and ring numbers are different.  It seems like parts are pretty readily available as long as you know your specific engine series, but if not.......crap shoot.  Still digging on that.  If anyone has some word of wisdom, I would gladly accept it.  Maybe I should just cross my fingers that the existing rings are OK, put it back together, and see what happens.  Just hate the idea of opening it up twice when I could have fixed it for another $20 the first time.

 

100% correct that it is aluminum casting with iron sleeved bore. Things looked pretty ugly when I popped it apart, but it cleaned up respectably and there are no scoring marks in the cylinder wall.  

 

 

 

 

After a quick blast of air and a few mins with a wire wheel.  The bore is nice and smooth the whole way around.  Piston is marked with a L, which from what I can find, designates it as made for a iron sleeved bore.  Valves are pretty ugly on top, but it did appear to have some compression before I popped the head.  Hopefully they can be lapped and reseat ok.  I lent out my valve compressor and it got broken, so gotta order a new one.  Everything feels tight with regards to the crank/rod/piston.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with it.  Looks like I can toss a few $$ at it for some new gaskets, seals, and maybe some rings if I can figure out what fits.  Then see what happens.  The throttle control and governor linkage all looks pretty roached, but I may be able to rig something up.  Carb overhaul kits are still readily available, so that may keep me busy while I chew on the rest for awhile.

 

Had to improvise to get the belt pulley off

 

Points are ugly, but could probably be cleaned up 

 

I'll mention, I do love having a bench vise big enough to mount a whole engine on......LOL

 

Getting what is left of the exhaust out, and that pesky broken head bolt will be a chore.  They gotta soak for a few days before I even think about it.  Might even weld a piece of flat stock to that pipe to get some torque on it, but really don't want to damage the casting

 

Thats it for now.  Thanks for playing along

 

 

 

 

 

[oliver2-44 10,689]

Put a metal blade in yo

On 5/2/2024 at 5:04 PM, OoPEZoO said:

Thanks for the files.  They don't cover exactly what I have here but lots of useful info in there.  I got it partially stripped down without too much drama.  Snapped one head bolt, but its sitting proud enough that I should be able to get it out with some work.  There are no part number markings on anything other than the flywheel, and those have not been helpful yet.  From my internet searching today, I still think it is late 50's-early 60's, and I think I have narrowed it down to a model 14 and in the 6HP range.  I've seen enough pictures and videos that I think I'm convinced.  The ones I've seen that are complete even have the same matching fuel tank that was on Sir Wally, which I knew wasn't original to him. I just have no idea what series it is or what specifically it came from. 

 

I took some rough measurements of the bore/stroke and came back with this

Bore 2.75"ish

Stroke 2.375"ish

That makes it about 14.11 cubic inches

 

I believe I have eyeballed the head gasket that came off of it to be a B&S part number 270340, and that led me to a potential 143302 engine model number.  Problem there is, I started cross referencing all the 14xxxx engine numbers I could find and while they all take the same head gasket, things like replacement pistons and ring numbers are different.  It seems like parts are pretty readily available as long as you know your specific engine series, but if not.......crap shoot.  Still digging on that.  If anyone has some word of wisdom, I would gladly accept it.  Maybe I should just cross my fingers that the existing rings are OK, put it back together, and see what happens.  Just hate the idea of opening it up twice when I could have fixed it for another $20 the first time.

 

100% correct that it is aluminum casting with iron sleeved bore. Things looked pretty ugly when I popped it apart, but it cleaned up respectably and there are no scoring marks in the cylinder wall.  

 

 

 

 

After a quick blast of air and a few mins with a wire wheel.  The bore is nice and smooth the whole way around.  Piston is marked with a L, which from what I can find, designates it as made for a iron sleeved bore.  Valves are pretty ugly on top, but it did appear to have some compression before I popped the head.  Hopefully they can be lapped and reseat ok.  I lent out my valve compressor and it got broken, so gotta order a new one.  Everything feels tight with regards to the crank/rod/piston.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with it.  Looks like I can toss a few $$ at it for some new gaskets, seals, and maybe some rings if I can figure out what fits.  Then see what happens.  The throttle control and governor linkage all looks pretty roached, but I may be able to rig something up.  Carb overhaul kits are still readily available, so that may keep me busy while I chew on the rest for awhile.

 

Had to improvise to get the belt pulley off

 

Points are ugly, but could probably be cleaned up 

 

I'll mention, I do love having a bench vise big enough to mount a whole engine on......LOL

 

Getting what is left of the exhaust out, and that pesky broken head bolt will be a chore.  They gotta soak for a few days before I even think about it.  Might even weld a piece of flat stock to that pipe to get some torque on it, but really don't want to damage the casting

 

I’ve had success removing exhaust pipes by cutting 3 slits on the inside of the pipe part way through the thickness using a metal blade in my saber saw. Being careful not to cut too deep and hit the threads. Then use a vice grip, punch pipe wrench, etc to crush and turn the pipe out. 

[OoPEZoO 566]

7 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

I’ve had success removing exhaust pipes by cutting 3 slits on the inside of the pipe part way through the thickness using a metal blade in my saber saw. Being careful not to cut too deep and hit the threads. Then use a vice grip, punch pipe wrench, etc to crush and turn the pipe out. 

My old man stopped by today and suggested that exact same tactic.  I’ve got the tools and blades sitting here, just need some more time.  I got ambitious this afternoon and popped the motor open. Inside is surprisingly nice and clean, but I still can’t make up my mind about if I want to pull the piston and try to figure out replacement rings. I’ll think it over tomorrow if I can get some shop time

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,450]

 

[OoPEZoO 566]

Oh, that might be exactly what I needed….dug for a few mins into those files and think I already found a match, but I refuse to go down the rabbit hole tonight.  Thank you again!