OVER RESTORED

[Retired Wrencher 4,909]

My first car was a 1931 Model A Ford, I brought it home in bushel baskets and dragged the chassis in with my buddies car. I was in the restore mode for many years. At the time those cars were not bringing in the big bucks, and I just wanted a kool car to drive around in. Over the years the prices of A's went up and as interest increased so did the level of restorations'.

That is reason I'm writing this, I believe that Wheel Horse owners today are ahead of the curve, Most of us just have a need for a tractor. And some see the old tractor as art form that should be preserved. Now as I was saying before I have seen cars go from "fix-em up" to restored to OVERRESTORED. Now I'm not saying that I have seen this at RED SQUARE but I feel a need to caution the readers of the dangers of over restoration.

The obvious, the value of an over restoration will not be easy to recoup the investment, purist will have to undo to get back to the original. Also you may lose out on potential buyers as over restoration falls into the "custom" class.

I see the junk the big box stores are passing off as tractors, stamped pans used as frames, little cast pot metal transmissions, small thin tires, and more O.E.M. parts to be discontinued, My ol' Horse looks better every day.

Hi W9jab I can see ur piont. my 1st a 312A started out with a simple clean up then I thought would be a quick paint job this was in May did not finsh that ride untill october. so when i was done I look at it and said wow What in H... did I do, it looks like new I can not use this to plow snow a nd mow grass. so I bought a 1964 custom off of a friend. to get through the winter. she did ok for a little tractor. sold it back to him in the spring. and now have a C141. this is a great plowing tractor. well take care and hope all ur wrechen goes well. T1257 aka Gary B.............

[fireman 1,021]

Well said Duke! When I put the NOS Kohler K91 with the electric start on my RJ, I thought myself, "It never came this way". Then I thought about the condition I found this thing in, and the difficulty in finding the correct engine, and realized it was still better than sitting out in the rain for another 20 years. I'm proud of the time and effort I put into it. The end result has got me nothing but compliments wherever I have shown it. Also the fact that I took every nut and bolt apart including the transmission and replaced anything worn or questionable assures me that it will operate and last for at least another 50+ years :scratchead:

[Retired Wrencher 4,909]

Well said Duke! When I put the NOS Kohler K91 with the electric start on my RJ, I thought myself, "It never came this way". Then I thought about the condition I found this thing in, and the difficulty in finding the correct engine, and realized it was still better than sitting out in the rain for another 20 years. I'm proud of the time and effort I put into it. The end result has got me nothing but compliments wherever I have shown it. Also the fact that I took every nut and bolt apart including the transmission and replaced anything worn or questionable assures me that it will operate and last for at least another 50+ years

nice quote fireman welll done W/H LONG LIFE.

[VinsRJ 721]

I can only guess at the meaning of the "over restored" terminology that "W9JAB" is using, but I see my interpretation of it in a lot of restorations too.....

An example would be an "alphabet" Farmall (A, B, C, H, M, etc.) that is smoothed of all the natural sheetmetal die wrinkles, waves, and spot welds with so many layers of sanded and buffed paint and clearcoat that the "grain" of the cast iron pieces is gone too.

[can whlvr 991]

I have to say that we are just luckey to have a great brand of tractor to do what you want with your own machines,i like both total restored and original,some rust etc!!

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Well said Duke! When I put the NOS Kohler K91 with the electric start on my RJ, I thought myself, "It never came this way". Then I thought about the condition I found this thing in, and the difficulty in finding the correct engine, and realized it was still better than sitting out in the rain for another 20 years. I'm proud of the time and effort I put into it. The end result has got me nothing but compliments wherever I have shown it. Also the fact that I took every nut and bolt apart including the transmission and replaced anything worn or questionable assures me that it will operate and last for at least another 50+ years

Thanks Jeff! yers like mine is far from being a text book restore but one thing for sure my friend id be proud to have yers sit in my stable anytime! :scratchead:

[fireman 1,021]

Thanks Duke! Coming from you that means alot. I wouldn't mind having your 56' RJ-35 in my stable :scratchead:

[Crow Horse 8]

I'm a newcomer to the Wheel Horse community, but I'd like to add my thoughts on this subject......

My definition of "over restored" is that the rebuild/restoration far exceeds the practicality of the intended use of the tractor. For instance, I use my Horse almost every day from mowing to hauling wood, stone, firearms and tools. It's a worker for sure so I'm my minds eye it would be foolish for me to invest all the hours needed to bring it to show quality. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate one that is show quality, but it's not going to last long with my usage.

Again, I do appreciate the show quality rigs and I drool over them but I couldn't bring myself to work it like I do mine.........

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

I have got to say that I think TT said it best, but I agree with others too.

Frankly, I never expect I will do a "restoration". My goal is much closer to "return to operation". And even then, if a different or later part will be more functional (to MY mind) I won't hesitate to change something. For example those locking push-pull throttle assemblies just don't age well. So my 1969 Charger got upgraded to the C style dash.

I'll admit my single big criteria is cost. And I feel pretty safe saying that I'll get more work out of, a $150 Wheel Horse than than any other brand. It is a safer investment - not the Wall St meaning but in terms of having the equipment I want to use and play with .

Now, I hope to find a 550 since that is what started the whole thing in my youth. To meet my price limits odds are the one I find will need some work. And when that happens my goal will be to protect it with sanding primer and paint as needed to make it work again and to protect it moving forward to the future.

I haven't made it to Arendsville yet, though I am hoping to next year. But, if I get a lot of flack about my tractors I won't go again. I completely agree with TT that if it turns to be like an auto show I'll take my tractors home and work em. That said, the opportunity to meet you guys is something I know will be a lot of fun, so it should be a good time for all.

JMHO

Rolf :scratchead:

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

I'm a newcomer to the Wheel Horse community, but I'd like to add my thoughts on this subject......

My definition of "over restored" is that the practicality of the rebuild/restoration far exceeds the intended use of the tractor. For instance, I use my Horse almost every day from mowing to hauling wood, stone, firearms and tools. It's a worker for sure so I'm my minds eye it would be foolish for me to invest all the hours needed to bring it to show quality. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate one that is show quality, but it's going to last long with my usage.

Again, I do appreciate the show quality rigs and I drool over them but I couldn't bring myself to work it like I do mine.........

Crow,

I know exactly what you mean. For example I have ed over the NOS stock Wheel Horse that I have shown up from time to time. But then I think about, even if money were no object, I'd be afraid to work it.

:scratchead:

[kj4kicks 151]

pretty...

worker....

it's true... they can be both !

it's just paint.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with what TT and the others have said. But it is possible to have both. That being said, I build mine the way I want them, and enjoy sharing the results with others. I could care less what the WH police think is correct and isn't correct. Mine all earn their keep, and if the shiny gets a scratch, so be it. Kind of like a badge of honor.

Now let's all have some :scratchead:

[MikesRJ 552]

How did I know this would turn into the proverbial Can-O-Worms?

Here in this group we have a combination of the Hard Workers, we have the Functional-Maintainers, we have the Custom-Modifiers, we have the Purpose-Builders, and we have Purist-Restorers; all in one big happy family. Each of us falls into one of these categories at any given time, on any given tractor (read that project if you'd like), and we are all better for it in the end because we share those feats with the community.

The diversity of interests here is what makes this board so worthwhile to the broader audience at large. Any one of us can glean knowledge and ideas from our collective intellectual resources, to use for any purpose we choose. That's the beauty of this hobby, however you practice it. You can pick and choose what information and ideas make the most sense to you personally, and end up with the Happy/Proud results whatever they may be.

Becoming so thin-skinned as to publicly show your work, then not be able to take any criticism, equates to accomplishment suicide. Without the intestinal fortitude to stand behind your work and (rightly so) being proud of your accomplishments, regardless of what others think, begs the question; "Why do it at all"?

I've seen this same argument played out here and elsewhere many times before. I fear that I may not have made my intended points clear in my previous posts, and some may have a skewed understanding of what I was trying to get across. We're all here to help each other; we're all here to learn from each other; and we're all here to pursue what makes us individually happy. The diversity here just enhances what we could do on our own. End of story!

How you react to how others view your work is a mirror of you own personality. Are you a stand-up, brush it off and move on kind of person, or do you sulk? You make that decision, no one else makes it for you. Personally, I look at it from the archers perspective. In the end the archer is always shooting at himself. In other words we are always competing with ourselves. Learn from others, apply that learning to our own tasks, learn in the process of doing, and to use those experiences to do better on the next project. Look at my signature. Read it slow. See the light!

Final word: they are just tractors and you're here to make yourself happy however you see fit.

[Retired Wrencher 4,909]

Mike u have a good point, but it is still in some W/H owners in there heart that they like to look at a ride that looks like it came out of the box. that is the way I look at it to keep the hobby alive to me nothing looks better than an old W/H all shiny and new looking if u. if have the $$$$ and time to do this. t/c and may ur horse live for ever. Gary B........ Springfield Mass.

[Raider12 13]

We're all here to help each other; we're all here to learn from each other; and we're all here to pursue what makes us individually happy. The diversity here just enhances what we could do on our own. End of story!

Final word: they are just tractors and you're here to make yourself happy however you see fit.

You nailed it! I total agree with you! :scratchead:

[MikesRJ 552]

As the Fiarbanks starter is aluminum I fully polished mine, the housing and mounting legs. Why, because I think it looks cool.

OK, so where's the pictures? :scratchead:

[Retired Wrencher 4,909]

OK, so where's the pictures?

i have to sign up for that Mike just getting done my C141 for plowing this winter that I pick up this spring what a pain in the A.. this ride was. but she is done now. talk with u later. Gary B.................... Spfld, Mass.

[Retired Wrencher 4,909]

i have to sign up for that Mike just getting done my C141 for plowing this winter that I pick up this spring what a pain in the A.. this ride was. but she is done now. talk with u later. Gary B.................... Spfld, Mass.

OOOp`s I forgot Mike if u would like to see some stuff that I have u can go to KW`s garden tractor web site find friends and family. scroll down to fine me =Gary tractors, I have a lot of stuff in there. T/C talkl to u later. Gary B...............

[VinsRJ 721]

OK, so where's the pictures?

Coming soon....

I only had a chance to get the piston/rod in and button up the oil pan this weekend. I'm hoping by the end of the week the Clinton will be done.

[W9JAB 156]

I knew when I started this it would get some blood pressure up. And I had no intention of besmirching anyones work. And I know that a tractor and automobile are two totally different animals. Much has been said as to the definition of "OVER" restored, Let me Say I saw Model T"s with porcelain coated frames, painted parts being plated, and chrome parts redone in gold. Way out there! Restored should be it left the factory, Taking out some ripples, a little extra shine, no harm no foul. But let's not call full out custom restored. There may come a day when these old workers will have judged competition with rules and regulation or a point system, rather than just show what- ya -brung. I would hate to see anyone kicking themselves for going overboard. Just a little something to think about. :scratchead:

[MikesRJ 552]

I knew when I started this it would get some blood pressure up. And I had no intention of besmirching anyones work. And I know that a tractor and automobile are two totally different animals. Much has been said as to the definition of "OVER" restored, Let me Say I saw Model T"s with porcelain coated frames, painted parts being plated, and chrome parts redone in gold. Way out there! Restored should be it left the factory, Taking out some ripples, a little extra shine, no harm no foul. But let's not call full out custom restored. There may come a day when these old workers will have judged competition with rules and regulation or a point system, rather than just show what- ya -brung. I would hate to see anyone kicking themselves for going overboard. Just a little something to think about.

I don't think anyone believes you were slighting anyone else's work, i think they believe you were just stating your opinion.

I knew as well that your post would perpetuate some good debate, but again the debate is a good thing. Personally I think its good for the community to discuss the factors involved. I too would hate to see the Wheelhorse tractor shows arrive at the level of scrutiny that automobiles receive. Besides with Wheelhorse's assembly and manufacturing practices, you'd be hard pressed to arrive at a consistent standard for any machine in their entire history.

The debate helps all of us understand the many forms in which a "restoration" can be performed. As long as the "restorer" understands the ramifications of what he intends to do, and why he is choosing to do it that way, all the better for him/her and everyone else who sees their work.

Like Duke said, any restoration, no matter how you call it, IS preservation. That is the whole point of this board, to help each other preserve what we have, in whatever form we wish to keep it. So long as it remains we are all better for it. I too would much prefer to see a Wheelhorse tractor "restored" and sitting in a garage never to be worked again, than to see it rot under a tree on the back of someones property.

[Redbird 1]

This is actually a pretty interesting thread & good to see the differant veiw points.

Personally I'm a rattle can hack & have not personally "restored" anything....in fact the word makes me cringe when people see one of my tractors I have worked on & tell me it's nicely restored.

I've pulled some tractors apart & refreshed them...but to call them restored.

I do own a few tractors that were (restored) by others....who's to say if there 100% authentic, but I like them.

I think we can all agree TT's pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If I were to see a tractor at a show no matter what color as TT described it kinda loses something about it's character.

Thats not to say I wouldn't apperciate the owners efforts.

We all personally have a differant level of skill we can put into the hobby too.

I can't even approach the level of work some of you have put into your machines.

I think it's awesome & want to see more of it.

Just as much as I like to see an old round hood someone has found in a barn cleaned up & left in original condition...."would that be under restored?"

I've been following this for a while now. Funny you should mention cleaning up an old horse and leaving it in it's original condition, because, I've been thinking of leaving the C-160 the way I got it and just cleaning it and putting clear coat on it I kinda like the brownish look to it. Gives character to the years of use and love. Not everyone can "dry" store their horses. It doesn't mean they're not loved and taken care of. As for "restoring" them, beauty AND practically are in the eyes of the owner.

[jpmcleod 4]

Boy what an interesting article. My 2 cents worth is that I love them anyway the owners want to make them. The only thing I hate to see is (as previously stated), a tractor sitting under a tree or in a field rusting away. I don't care what you do with it, just don't let it rust away.

[stevasaurus 22,273]

sure...I go to a tractor show in Minn over the weekend. and you start a thread like this. A subject we talked about at the show.

My 2 cents...all my horses are pinstriped, because that is what my dad did with them at the time for his lawn busasiness.

My point is... that WE are in the evolution of Wheel Horse, where they are not made anymore, Hard to get parts, can fabricate some or most because they were made by craftsmen and excellent engineers. Getting harder to find that free tractor isn't it? The word is out. I think it will become like furnature...If it is not rusted to that desireable pantina and you have repainted it with the wrong color red...the value drops.

Me...remember sun balls on your antennas when all the cars looked alike in the parking lot...and that is how you found yours.......I can always find my dad's pinstriped horses.

[bustedglass 1]

What a great thread to read . With all of the above being said, I can only offer one thing. - AMEN .....

It is wonderfull to see such a great group of people all come together for the same reason. No matter how old / new, pretty / ugly, shiney / dull - is'nt it great to own a horse. WHEEL HORSE OF COURSE !!!

[linen beige 14]

The diversity of opinions on this subject is just a testament to the built-in versatility of Wheel Horse!

When it comes to a true restoration intended to preserve one for posterity I'm personally a "put it back to factory original, original warts and all, via the original processes when possible kind of guy, but I have a very high appreciation for the craftsmanship involved in some of the closer to perfect resurections I've seen. The same goes for some of the quality custom jobs as well.

Then there's the other side of me when it comes to one intended to be a worker. Repair the rusted parts, repair the worn parts, coat it with a quality paint that will protect it and put her to work.