Steering Play

[mrharris12 31]

I have a good amount of play in the steering, I’m wondering if there is an adjustment or could see which part will need to fixed or replaced. In the video I’m turning the steering wheel before it engages to turn the front wheels.
sorry for the short clip, couldn’t get much longer to upload.

[Ed Kennell 35,722]

It looks like the fan gear block is loose or even broke.   That lower shaft should not be moving side to side.

[Handy Don 10,585]

Definitely a cracked lower steering block, You can see the crack open and close with the steering force. The fan gear looks heavily worn, and possibly the steering shaft gear. The grease zerk looks like it’s never been visited.

The new washer and cotter tell me that someone has tried to tighten the fan gear against the block and steering shaft gear. Not clear if the shims (if any) on the other side between the fan gear and the lower block were removed.

 

[mrharris12 31]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Definitely a cracked lower steering block, You can see the crack open and close with the steering force. The fan gear looks heavily worn, and possibly the steering shaft gear. The grease zerk looks like it’s never been visited.

The new washer and cotter tell me that someone has tried to tighten the fan gear against the block and steering shaft gear. Not clear if the shims (if any) on the other side between the fan gear and the lower block were removed.

 

I’m guessing the new washer and cotter tried to adjust it for a quick fix. I’m guessing the first thing to try is to switch out the fan gear and see what happens with a new one?

[oliver2-44 8,851]

As the other guys pointed out, you need to replace or weld that cracked lower steering block and replace the fan gear 

[daveoman1966 3,610]

That fan gear is shot...   I have a replacement lower steering arm for $35...+12 ship in usa. 

I am near Meadville PA   my zip is 16433.    

 

[mrharris12 31]

6 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

That fan gear is shot...   I have a replacement lower steering arm for $35...+12 ship in usa. 

I am near Meadville PA   my zip is 16433.    

 

I appreciate it! I’m going to take it apart and see what all is messed up and I’ll get back to ya.

[ri702bill 7,312]

12 hours ago, mrharris12 said:

I’m guessing the new washer and cotter tried to adjust it for a quick fix. I’m guessing the first thing to try is to switch out the fan gear and see what happens with a new one?

I am not convinced that the fan gear is the problem. The lower steering block is broken - fairly common. You will need a new one anyway - replace that first. The action between the steering wheel shaft gear and the fan gear seems to be OK. There are various styles of lower steering supports, they are interchangable, but some are "better" than others. The early 1960's version had thin tabs to mount to the frame and no thin bushing for the shaft - the least desirable of all. Later they added the bushing in the same casting - a bit better. The "best" version is newer, has thicker tabs and the bushing.

 

For what it's worth, I modified the early one and the steering wheel shaft - added an upper bushing, grooved the shaft to make grease pockets, added a bushing to the fan gear shaft.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by ri702bill

[peter lena 8,050]

@ri702bill fully agree with your modifacation / upgrade , some green grease , would make that swing like a vault door , pete

[mrharris12 31]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

I am not convinced that the fan gear is the problem. The lower steering block is broken - fairly common. You will need a new one anyway - replace that first. The action between the steering wheel shaft gear and the fan gear seems to be OK. There are various styles of lower steering supports, ther are interchangable, but some are "better" than others. Thearly 1960's version had thin tabs to mount to the frame and no thin bushing for the shaft - the least desirable of all. Later they added the bushing in the same casting - a bit better. The "best" version is newer, has thicker tabs and the bushing.

 

For what it's worth, I modified the early one and the steering wheel shaft - added an upper bushing, grooved the shaft to make grease pockets, added a bushing to the fan gear shaft.

 

 

I’ll see if I can find a steering block and see what happens with it, appreciate it!

[ri702bill 7,312]

Good - do that first, but do not be surprized that the more you fix, the more you find!! Do check the play in the tierod joints. Factory ones for MOST tractors were non greaseable and wear out (or fall apart !!) long before the rest of the tractor does, Modern adjustable length replacements with Heim spherical joints are the way to go...

Was the tractor ever used for plowing - the broken lower steering block is usually the victim of vibration and frame twist from plowing..

If so, check the frame "F" plate - the flat end of the frame where the Unidrive bolts on - for evidence of cracking around the four mounting bolts - fixable but time consuming.

 

This is an 854 frame from a dedicated plow tractor - 3 of the 4 holes were severely cracked out - only 1 had a good hold of the Unidrive. This one wiggled like an inchworm on uneven ground.....

 

 

[mrharris12 31]

1 minute ago, ri702bill said:

Good - do that first, but do not be surprized that the more you fix, the more you find!! Do check the play in the tierod joints. Factory ones for MOST tractors were non greaseable and wear out (or fall apart !!) long before the rest of the tractor does, Modern adjustable length replacements with Heim spherical joints are the way to go...

Was the tractor ever used for plowing - the broken lower steering block is usually the victim of vibration and frame twist from plowing..

If so, check the frame "F" plate - the flat end of the frame where the Unidrive bolts on - for evidence of cracking around the four mounting bolts - fixable but time consuming.

 

This is an 854 frame from a dedicated plow tractor - 3 of the 4 holes were severely cracked out - only 1 had a good hold of the Unidrive. This one wiggled like an inchworm on uneven ground.....

 

 

So I actually just replaced the tie rods last week, one of them not secure at all so I replaced both of them.

 

I do know the original owner used it for plowing snow, but since I have had it there hasn’t been enough snow for the plow.

 

but once I start on taking apart the steering I’ll try to take a good look at things and see what I’ll need!

[pacer 3,159]

I've been a member here for quite a while and still get .... amazed? to see a post like this one where there is a ton of information given in great detail for the new members.

 

Hopefully, as you become familiar with your horse you can be able to jump in and join in the helpful hints given out.............

[brians306 23]

11 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

As the other guys pointed out, you need to replace or weld that cracked lower steering block and replace the fan gear 

you have a p.m.

[peter lena 8,050]

@ri702bill  scary to see your similar snoopin around  on the unit , very often refer to another issue , opportunity  , thats related . finding good solid  heavy steel stock , is a very lucky find today . also relate to those heim joints , initally tried some as a road test , over original fitting end , never had a failure , always have a few on hand , for another  expermental  linkage end . pete 

[ri702bill 7,312]

1 hour ago, pacer said:

I've been a member here for quite a while and still get .... amazed? to see a post like this one where there is a ton of information given in great detail for the new members.

 

Hopefully, as you become familiar with your horse you can be able to jump in and join in the helpful hints given out.............

Well said... perhaps the "Prima Donnas" are on another site !! - THIS is what it is all about - us "Been there, done that" folks helping each other with tractor issues and helping to get the Newbies up to speed so they can enjoy their tractors....

Edited May 31, 2023 by ri702bill

[Lee1977 6,214]

2 hours ago, brians306 said:

you have a p.m.

Here is how I brazed mine.

[ri702bill 7,312]

Lee - a bit of prep work to fixture it with good results.

That block looks like a newer one with the thicker tabs and the bushing...

 

A few questions...

Did you have to remove the lower bushing due to the heat?

Did you pre-heat the whole part and fixture first??

I take that this is a long term fix - did it hold up??

The heat discolorization seems to be very localized.

Bill

[Lee1977 6,214]

It's off the 312-8 it's still on there those pictures were taken in July of 2017.Doesn't move when turning the steering wheel.

No preheat, takes a good bit of heat before you can braze. I didn't remove the bushing. 

It broke when I turned it over backing into a fence post. There is a picture I just posted in last tractor loading accident on Bumps and Bruises.

[squonk 38,902]

I have had about a dozen tractors with a broken steering support. My main worker C160 came that way. It had 2 small plates over the cracks clamped down with the mounting bolts. Ran it that way for about 10 years before I changed it when I replaced the engine. Worked fine.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by squonk

[mrharris12 31]

Wanted to let everyone know that I finally had time to get the steering uninstalled and turns out the block is fine and the fan gear isnt worn down. It turns out the bearing or bushing that goes on the end of the fan gear was completely gone, that is why it was rocking when turning within the steering block.

[mrharris12 31]

To all,

 

I ended up getting a new steering block, the old one was a little more opened up than it should be. Did not get a bushing for either hole on the steering block, but for the fan gear I added a few more washers and made it a lot tighter and it took most / if not all the play out of the steering. Fix wont last but so long, but it does work for now.

[Thatoneguy 197]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:22 PM, daveoman1966 said:

That fan gear is shot...   I have a replacement lower steering arm for $35...+12 ship in usa. 

I am near Meadville PA   my zip is 16433.    

 

Do you still have these available? 

[daveoman1966 3,610]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:48 AM, mower said:

Do you still have these available? 

Yes..  I have this lower steering gear (fan gear) part.  

 

[Thatoneguy 197]

Will they fit a c-120 automatic?