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This is your "official" spoiler alert, as they say these days! It is time for me to resurrect this thread and finish the story now that we have nearly finished the restoration! We have a little fine tuning to do to the carb and then "letter" it and this Iron Horse has a new life for the third time!!! It has been a great project to do with my dad and my boys, now we get to enjoy playing on it! ...more pics and story to follow! I just wanted to let you guys know that we hadn't given up!

There is a mostly original, 100% complete, restored 1960 Suburban 400 (I think) for sale right here in my town. I don't know the exact model, but there is a 4hp Kohler, so I'm calling it a Suburban 400 for now. The parts that seem to be missing in the pictures are in a box--but everything appears to be there. Is $500 a great price, or not really? I couldn't put it to work for much, but it sure would be fun and cool to own one of the classic round hoods. I may not buy it, but the temptation is great. It is unusual to see one of these just sitting out at a garage sale when driving by.

and just realized that i had not taken any pictures or mowed with it yet , so today was the day. it's an older restoration with a few blemishes , but ran and mowed great the guy i bought it from did not restore it , but had bought it 5-6 years ago as it is. it was his only mower while he had it. he only sold it because he bought a new Cub Cadet with lot's of attachments and his wife said he could only have one riding mower. i think he was about to cry when i drove away with it in my trailer maybe that's why i'm not married

Yes, I agree...open it. By chance, did you look at those ball bearings when you had it open. It is weird that you have used it OK for a while and then it happens. I'm going to send you a PM with my phone number on it...I have some options that may interest you. Give me a call if you want.

Thought you all would like to see a factory wheel horse mounted Bachtold mower. Tractor and mower came from the original farm. Even got a paper on setup / using the mower! Tractor is a 875 wheel o matic. There isn't much info I can find on these. If someone would like to share what they know about this attachment that would be awesome.

First post here, and am enjoying reading up on WH tractors. I've always been of the green persuasion, and spent the past year looking for a JD140 to restore. I couldn't find anything I liked, and the other day I jumped on CL for the umpteenth time, and one of the first ads that came up was for a 1979 C141 in absolutely unbelievable condition. I didn't know too much about WH tractors, never having owned one, and from the pic, it looked like gear drive, which I didn't want. But closer inspection of the pictures showed it to be a Sundstrand hydro tractor with a 36" RD deck. After some very fast research, I decided to go look at it. Nice guy had it, and loved it, you could tell from the condition that he had really given it a home, but had too many tractors that he actually used, to take care of, and didn't want the 141 sitting and going to pot. I drove it, looked it over and found only a couple of very minor problems. A tire that wouldn't hold air, and a battery that wouldn't hold a charge. A quick multimeter test showed the system charging fine, and a battery that couldn't stand the load. After some discussion, and the seller more interested in the tractor finding a good home, that money, (yeah, go figure, how cool), we made a deal for $750, and my neighbor and I hauled the tractor home. I tubed the tires and bought a new battery, and it runs like new. I'm amazed, not a hint of smoke, hydro is as new, really cool. Needless to say, I'm a convert! I think the Sundstrand is smoother than the JD Peerless I'm used to, it seems more responsive, like it's connected solid. You can tell, someone took care of it, the guy said the old man he bought it from, had spray painted it often to keep it from rusting, and you can see a run or two, here and there, the oil in the hydro and engine looks new, air filter in good condition, steering tight, it's been greased well, and often. You WH guys must take a lot better care of your toys than the JD guys do, cause the 140's I looked at were quite neglected! Anyway, thanks for putting a great site and forum together, and you'll see me here quite a bit now that I have changed colors!

Just had to sneak a couple for a secret pot of Chili this weekend

Toro got a bad rap from loyal Wheelhorse owners but it was Toro that saved Wheelhorse and the Garden tractor line. They could have killed the line and made Toro branded tractors changing every year or two so the attachments would not fit many consecutive models. As it turned out, Toro kept the Wheelhorse line going and were responsible for the incredible run of the C-Series through the 300, 400 & 500 series tractors and the compatibility of the attachments to extend decades of models. And as was touted earlier in this thread, the Xi line of tractors were built heavy-duty and were actually heavier in weight than the 520-H. Much heavier. Toro made many cheaper models that were riding lawn mowers at best but they were still far superior than the MTD junk sold in the box stores. Toro even kept making parts that were interchangeable to older machines. I've said it many years ago here but it bares repeating. We should thank Toro for buying Wheelhorse and keeping Elmer Pond's tractors going for the many years that they did. Toro knew they bought a great design with a loyal following. And it showed!

@Dieselcowboy Did you ever post any other pictures on this? I'd love to see a few more. Yours is the only other original I've seen mounted on a Wheel Horse. Nice to know there is at least one more out there. I'd also love to see an action video.... your's looks well worn by the shape of the blade. Mine's NOS. It came from the family of a closed dealership in Iowa (via another collector in Michigan to me) .. Original owner's son claimed his dad was the one who talked Bachtold into making them. They were both a Wheel Horse and Bachtold dealership. Mine will eventually end up on either a 753 or 854 to emulate this picture.

Time to load up for the Dover Olde Tyme Days Show. Decisions..Decisions The 520 snow machine is out... too hot in the cab and rough ride on the chains. The 312H has mowing duties this afternoon. The Green MTD gets to go cause he is banned at the Big Show. The 16 auto dually hasn't been out for awhile. The Commando 8 is just fun to ride.

If I can carve out the time from my crazy life...there are more stories to tell and many more pictures to share. The iron horse has been in our family so long that the memories abound! There is the time that I took the key as a little kid and hid it who knows where, there is the effect that a timed RD deck can have on a vintage Schwinn bike when accidently backed over, there is the feel and sound of using the same machine for years and years. After all this time, I've been at my own house for 15 years, when I get on that little tractor, it brings all those memories back.

Silly Q... both of course.

The actual owner/restorer lives in another state, but worked on it every time he came here. His brother is selling it for him. He is retiring and selling off all his goodies so he can travel. I was able to speak with him on the phone and get all the details. I literally locked up my brakes when I was driving by and caught it out of the corner of my eye. They probably thought I was crazy when I ran up to look at it, panting partial phrases like, "what year... model... work? How...much?" Now that I think about it, I looked like a complete nut-- --a Wheel Horse nut! By the way... I was driving to look at another C-175 Auto when this all happened. And the price is right for the C-175 this time around. I know AMC RULES is partial to his C... what to do? Get the everyday workhorse C, or the too cool Suburban kit? I hate decisions like this...

hers a pic of my sons lawn ranger it still has the front of the deck closed off

The front half of the unit is the exact same as the walk behind models they were famous for.... they just made a mounting kit for the tractor and had drive pulleys arranged depending on the model. The base of the unit is the Bachtold 204.

Looks like you've been busy too.

Hi all, finally put together another update video for you, most things are explained in there really. shouldn't be long now until she's drivable again! the hitch lift and bracing the front of the transmission are the main fabrication bits but I'm sure there will be the random bits that pop up, there always is! I'm hoping to get her done by the engine of the month but we'll have to see about that!

I have a pair of Carlisle 4.80-8 that I'd sell you. $60 for the pair shipped to you. Nice quality and look similar to your oem tires. Came on my 401. Nearly new. If you want something more original looking, check out Miller Tire. http://www.millertire.com/products/lawn-garden-tires/4-00-8/4-80-8-firestone-turf-guide-4-ply/

Here is what it looks like now. Next time I get it out ill see if the wife will video it.

Well, I have almost surrendered to the mouse or vole that has decided my tomatoes are his. I thought it was birds or squirrels, so I covered the entire roof with plastic mesh. Then I discovered a mouse tunnel, and saw they were getting in under the wooden fence on one side, so I buried galvanized hardware cloth along the fence. A week goes by, and I finally get a few tomatoes. Then today, I find another tomato eaten, and a cuke nibbled, and a tunnel up in the middle of the bed. At this point, I have gotten a couple of salads worth of lettuce, and a dozen or so tomatoes, 3 cukes. I probably have $500 or more in the garden, plus a lot of work. That is some expensive salad

Here are 3 PDFs. I have included Motion Industries catalog numbers and the size of the bearings in each attachment. If you click on this link, it will bring up Motion Industries web site...type in their catalog number for the bearing or seal that you are looking for. It will give dimensions, a picture and an approximate price. You can also order online. Most of these bearings are also available from your TORO dealer and NAPA. Hope this helps... https://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/productCatalogSearch.jsp The 1st PDF is the WH # 5003 and 5010 RJ and 3 piece suburban transmissions. The 2nd PDF is the 3 and 4 speeds...WH # 5007, 5025, 5046, 5048, 5049, and 5053 transmissions. The 3rd PDF is the 6 and 8 speeds...WH # 5086, 5073, 5091, 103907, 103916, and 103918 transmissions. 1. UNI DRIVE TRANS 1.pdf 2. UNI DRIVE TRANS 2.pdf 3. UNI DRIVE TRANS 3.pdf Bearings and seals for a #5058 bevel gear transmission. differential carriage bearing (2) WH #1533 From Lowell outer axle bearing (2) WH #1526...KOYO #B-1816 outer axle seals (2) WH #1213...SKF #11050 mushroom gear rh WH#1532...KOYO #M-16121 mushroom gear lh WH#1530....KOYO #B-1612 seal brakeshaft WH#1232.....SKF #9815 cluster gear shaft bearing (2) WH#1529.....KOYO #M-12121 input shaft WH#1508 (1)...KOYO #B-1212 input shaft seal WH#1303....SKF #7410 spline shaft bearing WH#1531...KOYO M-10121 case gasket...#3912 Here ya go...KOYO is the same Torrington numbers. 5/8" input shaft seal 103916 transmission WH # 100442 = Timken 340387 = very similar to original seal. (SKF/CR 6105)

Hello everyone Im Josh and Im new to the wheel horse forum. Live in central IL. Just bought my first a couple weeks ago. Its a raider 12, unsure of the year. Its probably not like mosts style in here. Went into the purchase somewhat blind. I was in a rush since I needed it for an engine overhaul class. Not knowing that to look for, and definately not the original motor. But I asked a ton of questions and got a super good deal on it. The front is already lowered to about an inch off the ground. It needs redone which I plan on doing and then do somewhat of a body drop on the rear. I like my vehicles on the ground lol. I will post a picture of my blazer as well. But I will definately be using this forum to its full potential and getting all the info I can on it. I like it and I guess in the end thats all that really matters. But I will enjoy this wheel horse until the end.

It's not tuning as such, but removing the engine covers, cleaning all debris from the cooling fins and pulling the heads to de-carbon seems like a reasonable thing to do at 700 hours. The rear cylinder is prone to overheating and damaging the valve seats. It may be a good time to be proactive.

C's are much easier to find. That 400 looks like a great deal if the parts wallfish mentioned are with it.

Yep...you will not find another one that nice for that little...IF that other stuff is there.

Dang! That's a 'purty tractir.' That was a great write-up about your family history along with a magnificent bunch of photographs. Reading this thread made my day.

Looks good to me there is probably 350$ dollars worth of tires on it. I have bought less for 500$ run don't walk to buy it Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Nice find! I would pull the front off the mower in the fall when pulling the leaf sweeper, grind them up with the mower and sweep them up, makes it go faster than just sweeping.

As you can see from the above story, it has given us four decades of hard work and has earned some lazy days lounging around the corral! However, we will occasionally plow with it at some local plow days. Mostly, it will be a show machine, parade tractor, and a wagon puller (grandkids in tow;)

The engine actually spins? So, not like the starter is just not engaging the flywheel?

Boovuc, that was well said. Living in the South Bend area for 45 years until 2000 I was one of those who bashed Toro when they closed the plant. I now understand the reasoning and you are spot on. Toro respected Wheel Horse quality. Thank you for saying it so well.

Yes. Magnums are definitely underrated and so is the K341. All great engines. I'll finally get to test out the 312 on the lawn tomorrow. In the mean time I said goodbye to the 6-inch wheels and installed a set of 8-inch rims with new turf tires and buffed the hood and fenders. Gotta look good while mowing in a subdivision full of green, white and yellow!

An awesome find. Thanks for sharing pictures.

That thing looks real clean! Welcome! You will find this place to be filled to the brim with awesome people ready to help you however they can! (At least, that's how I found it, so I stuck around ) Beware. If left unattended for long, they will start to multiply and you will find yourself addicted!

Nice catch on the front axle! I have pics that are SUPPOSED to be a 702 that show a front axle with an indentation through out the center of the casting which I assume is what you are referring to as NOT "square". 63 thru 67s do but this is obviously not an 875 or newer square hood. I would like to do a study on WH axles. Not as readily changed as other characteristics and I think a good way to help ID a WH. But I'm not getting what you mean about the pedals though so please help me... I think pedals is another complete study to try to ID these guys! If you have a good grip on this please share and I'll take notes so we can share again later! Dennis... there are some subtle and not so subtle differences to the front axles for the 60s models. Here are a quick few.... 1960 Suburban, Cast iron V shape form with large indent in casting, flat plate at end of frame rails, single short tie rod, long flat drag link connected other spindle. 1961 701 same axle flipped upside down (inverted V) for taller stance, flat plate at end of frame rails, single short tie rod, long flat drag link connected other spindle. 1963 633/653/753 new design cast iron inverted V, new design offset bend front plate (note the 603 still used the previous version and the 953 was another completely new different design) Again, notice the difference in the plate at the front of the frame rails. 1965 changed to the wedge shaped square hood and the front of the tractor changed for the hood mount but not the axle. There were a few different hood mounts. The clutch pedal only had a few changes. Again... a quick few... 1960 Bent piece of flat stock steel. 1961 New cast iron rounded off point flag style 1963 New cast iron squared off flag style @swade41 I would agree with the other guys on your tractor being an 854. That being said, your engine is the original spec. Otherwise, it looks like the guys have got you squared away.

and thanks for the photos!

Mike........

my son and I plan on being there fri morning bring a few horses. Never been here before looking forward to making some new friends

This is the type I have - 4 of them so far - they are from China and take a few days longer to get here but a price of from $12 to $20 & free ship is hard to beat. Just do a search on the bay for "12v fuel pump" I keep a plastic auxiliary tank off some mower in the scrap yard, kinda squarish for ease of tying down and jury rig it some where on the tractor for test purposes. I'm pretty set on getting one running before I start doing a bunch of work and putting money in one. That hub is pretty bad, ask in the wanted section here on the forum, somebody will probably have one. That axle is pretty whipped also. If you have a mill or know of one, you probably need to bush it - or replace it, probably the best option. The pics are goofy on my 'puter, a few show up every time I open the thread, but most havent opened at all... "best motor" Curious. How come? Dennis, That is the K-341 single cyl 16 hp, it is/was just about the cream of the crop in single cyl Kohlers, seemingly immune to abuse and loads of power - and it sounds wicked cool too

I love my L3400 best compact tractor made Brian

I've been secretly hunting for one to run a tiller & maybe a small 3pt blower . One from the late 80's slipped through my fingers a while ago

PM the squonk... he's a Kabota boy Glenn.

Picked again this morning. Might be time to make some Chili to go with that berry pie.

After eating one of those "home grown", you'll never eat those hot house salad bar tomatoes again.

Here Ya go Craig.

Tractor is now out of the garage and running

Yes 754's do exist! Here is the memo from Wheel Horse announcing their introduction in the Spring '64.

This should be helpful to those who decide to rebuild their transmission, and in the case of "randhad" above (who discovered a mistake in one of the PDF's) can figure out what the # of the bearing is and then verify the PDF's are correct. I'll try to make this simple, but it needs to be part of this thread. By measuring inside diameter (ID) and the height of a bearing you are replacing, you can actually name the bearing yourself. This is for KOYO and Torrington bearings and it works like this. A through, needle bearing starts with a "B". The rest of the numbers are the ID and the height in16ths of an inch. So, if you have a bearing that has an ID of 3/4" and a height of 5/8" (the ID is listed 1st) you have a B-3/4" x 5/8"...3/4" = 12/16" and 5/8" = 10/16"......so the bearing is a B-1210. A bearing B-1816 is a through, needle bearing with an ID of 1 & 1/8" and a height of 1" The cap bearings work like this..."M" signals a cap bearing...the numbers work the same as with the through, needle bearings...with the exception of a "1" at the end. I have no idea what the "1" stands for at the end. So...a cap bearing that is ID 3/4" with a height of 1" is going to be M-12161. If anyone knows what the (1) on the end stands for...I am all ears. Hope this helps all to verify the bearings they pull out of their transmissions. There are some transmissions out there (Wheel Horse) that are not listed in the PDF's...like the #5060 10 pinion, limited slip. I think the brake shaft on that is 1" not 3/4"...by using the formula above, you will get the right bearing.