Leaderboard

First post here, and am enjoying reading up on WH tractors. I've always been of the green persuasion, and spent the past year looking for a JD140 to restore. I couldn't find anything I liked, and the other day I jumped on CL for the umpteenth time, and one of the first ads that came up was for a 1979 C141 in absolutely unbelievable condition. I didn't know too much about WH tractors, never having owned one, and from the pic, it looked like gear drive, which I didn't want. But closer inspection of the pictures showed it to be a Sundstrand hydro tractor with a 36" RD deck. After some very fast research, I decided to go look at it. Nice guy had it, and loved it, you could tell from the condition that he had really given it a home, but had too many tractors that he actually used, to take care of, and didn't want the 141 sitting and going to pot. I drove it, looked it over and found only a couple of very minor problems. A tire that wouldn't hold air, and a battery that wouldn't hold a charge. A quick multimeter test showed the system charging fine, and a battery that couldn't stand the load. After some discussion, and the seller more interested in the tractor finding a good home, that money, (yeah, go figure, how cool), we made a deal for $750, and my neighbor and I hauled the tractor home. I tubed the tires and bought a new battery, and it runs like new. I'm amazed, not a hint of smoke, hydro is as new, really cool. Needless to say, I'm a convert! I think the Sundstrand is smoother than the JD Peerless I'm used to, it seems more responsive, like it's connected solid. You can tell, someone took care of it, the guy said the old man he bought it from, had spray painted it often to keep it from rusting, and you can see a run or two, here and there, the oil in the hydro and engine looks new, air filter in good condition, steering tight, it's been greased well, and often. You WH guys must take a lot better care of your toys than the JD guys do, cause the 140's I looked at were quite neglected! Anyway, thanks for putting a great site and forum together, and you'll see me here quite a bit now that I have changed colors!

Toro got a bad rap from loyal Wheelhorse owners but it was Toro that saved Wheelhorse and the Garden tractor line. They could have killed the line and made Toro branded tractors changing every year or two so the attachments would not fit many consecutive models. As it turned out, Toro kept the Wheelhorse line going and were responsible for the incredible run of the C-Series through the 300, 400 & 500 series tractors and the compatibility of the attachments to extend decades of models. And as was touted earlier in this thread, the Xi line of tractors were built heavy-duty and were actually heavier in weight than the 520-H. Much heavier. Toro made many cheaper models that were riding lawn mowers at best but they were still far superior than the MTD junk sold in the box stores. Toro even kept making parts that were interchangeable to older machines. I've said it many years ago here but it bares repeating. We should thank Toro for buying Wheelhorse and keeping Elmer Pond's tractors going for the many years that they did. Toro knew they bought a great design with a loyal following. And it showed!

The quality stayed up there through their demise in 2007. There was only one model by that time which is probably why it was called a 'Classic'. This is my 2005. It now sports Terry's patriotic decals.

i think they keep their quality all the way to the end on their higher end wheel horses i know they made alot of cheaper models too but even compared to the cheap lawn mower market the wheel horses were still pretty good and better quality than alot of the cheap mtd mowers out their at the time

Just hooked the trailer up today for the first time. Hauled an RJ-35 to the scrap metal recycling center this morning. Now before anyone panics, the RJ-35 just went along for the ride. I had to get rid of some scrap metal and trash on the trailer before I head up to Olde Tyme Days on Saturday. The RJ is NOT mine, and is just being transported.

You know, @Jake Kuhn, that just doesn't sound right! <smirk>

Thanks. The biggest of the little tailgate buddies was my final inspiration for getting the 4X4. He and little brother are going with us to the Outer Banks later this summer, and he said that "somebody has to have a 4-wheeler for driving on the beach". I guess he meant me. Now if I can just get my hands on his piggy bank...

I talked to a long time dealer a few years back. He said when Toro took over Wheel Horse, the quality control went way up. Said many times a WH tractor would be shipped missing parts and that ended with Toro. I don't know, I was never thrilled with Toro. I bought a 210-H in 2000 and was skeptical but I saw enough WH features on it to take a chance. Had it for 20 yrs and only replaced a tie rod and a diode.

Here's a pic of a 1976 B-80 'converted' to a C-160. I bought it as a B-80 brand new. I bought the headlights when I bought the tractor. I installed a new K-341 and 23-8.50 rear tires. In 2000 I sold it when we moved here. Kinda a long story but about a year ago I discovered that the current owner was the neighbor of my daughter and her family in Walkerton, IN. It was still almost like new when I sold it in spite of how hard I worked it and it saddened me to see the shape it's in now but it was so amazing that I got to see it again. The Commando 800 (1972) in the background is my grandsons. I restored it for him several years ago. The rear tires on it are the 22-7.50 that were originally on the B-80. Also keep in mind the other differences between the B and C series in that era but yes, the 77 and older B's were just as capable if the horsepower was there. The 76 and 77 even had the 8 pinion diff and 1.125 axles. Not sure prior to that.

Up to and including 1977 the B's were basically the same as the C's. In 1978 the B's were lawn tractors. The B/C difference in 76 and 77 was, horsepower, low back vs high back seat, 13" vs 15" steering wheel, 22-7.50 vs 23-8.50 rear tires, optional vs standard headlights. The differences prior to 76 were similar but I didn't have first hand experience with those. I think some of the earlier B's had 4-speeds.

Wow ! Some great information, so it's a 1964 model 854. I ordered the carb kit yesterday from the ebay link and it was shipped today, so hopefully it arrives by the weekend. I paid 75 bucks for the tractor and my neighbor has offered me 150 already, ...not for sale...lol It sparked memories for the 88 year old, as he worked for the city of Buffalo and was the main man to order the new equipment, his choice of mowers was the Wheel Horse. I told him he could drive it around though when I get it running right or I'd attach my antique radio flyer wagon to the back and tow him around..ha ha ha

That thing looks real clean! Welcome! You will find this place to be filled to the brim with awesome people ready to help you however they can! (At least, that's how I found it, so I stuck around ) Beware. If left unattended for long, they will start to multiply and you will find yourself addicted!

i am also new to the Wheel Horse never owned one before last week.but always wanted a good heavy duty tractor for summer and winter work.i purchased a 1995 520h and it is very nice condition. He really took good care of it .it is a breast. I think it will pull a house down. Yes, keep us a breast of your progress. and maybe turn off auto correct

Somebody had some time to kill...and a beer in their hand.

Yes. Magnums are definitely underrated and so is the K341. All great engines. I'll finally get to test out the 312 on the lawn tomorrow. In the mean time I said goodbye to the 6-inch wheels and installed a set of 8-inch rims with new turf tires and buffed the hood and fenders. Gotta look good while mowing in a subdivision full of green, white and yellow!

Also, they never had a C-80. There was a C-81 which started in 1978 when the B's became lawn tractors.

Here is what it looks like now. Next time I get it out ill see if the wife will video it.

Welcome to Red Square. You got yourself a real nice horse for a good price. Got some wheel weights on those rear tires...you need to find a snow blade so you can use that horse year round.

to Always nice to see a green & yellow convert...... You are going see some neglected horses & ponies here too but here guys often go out of their way and at great danger to the wallet to find the neglected ones and fix them up.....part of the addiction I guess. Just remember here Don't forget to consider becoming a supporter and again

Mine is pretty worn. I really need a new blade but not like I use it daily. Lol. I have mounted mine on a round hood since the last pics. It works pretty well. These mowers don't chop like a mowing deck but rather cut the weeds at the bottom and drop them whole. I will defiantly get a few more pics of the mower for you. Nice score on a nos one ! So there is at least 2 of these in the world left.

Great find, and a good first horse. It may be close to 40 years old, but with proper care, 40 years from now someone will be saying "look what I snagged, a really nice 80 year old C-141"

I believe if you look at the engine, the extra hood length was necessary to clear the larger air cleaner.

Nice catch on the front axle! I have pics that are SUPPOSED to be a 702 that show a front axle with an indentation through out the center of the casting which I assume is what you are referring to as NOT "square". 63 thru 67s do but this is obviously not an 875 or newer square hood. I would like to do a study on WH axles. Not as readily changed as other characteristics and I think a good way to help ID a WH. But I'm not getting what you mean about the pedals though so please help me... I think pedals is another complete study to try to ID these guys! If you have a good grip on this please share and I'll take notes so we can share again later! Dennis... there are some subtle and not so subtle differences to the front axles for the 60s models. Here are a quick few.... 1960 Suburban, Cast iron V shape form with large indent in casting, flat plate at end of frame rails, single short tie rod, long flat drag link connected other spindle. 1961 701 same axle flipped upside down (inverted V) for taller stance, flat plate at end of frame rails, single short tie rod, long flat drag link connected other spindle. 1963 633/653/753 new design cast iron inverted V, new design offset bend front plate (note the 603 still used the previous version and the 953 was another completely new different design) Again, notice the difference in the plate at the front of the frame rails. 1965 changed to the wedge shaped square hood and the front of the tractor changed for the hood mount but not the axle. There were a few different hood mounts. The clutch pedal only had a few changes. Again... a quick few... 1960 Bent piece of flat stock steel. 1961 New cast iron rounded off point flag style 1963 New cast iron squared off flag style @swade41 I would agree with the other guys on your tractor being an 854. That being said, your engine is the original spec. Otherwise, it looks like the guys have got you squared away.

that thing looks very clean and original i say you did well

I did take a bunch of photos but they are before pics. I'll attach some and let you guys decide. I won't be able to take it out for a test drive until this afternoon, I'm on my way to help out at my local food pantry. That tranny wasn't too pretty when I took it apart. It got all new seals and bearings. Except for the 1533s, With a lot of work I managed to get them cleaned up and working.

I agree as well and you should try that test. Here's my thoughts on seeing if you can feel it 'lock' in to the detents in all gears. The shifter has the ability to actually move the forks past the detents but it doesn't because the gears physically stop it. The shifter doesn't do a thing to keep the transmission in a particular gear, the detents do. By moving through the gears gently you will feel when the detent balls engage. If you feel them engage as you shift to first, the shifter got them where they belong. I also agree that the 1st/reverse fork looks suspect in the picture and it's the area the shifter contacts to put it in 1st gear.

well i got the plowing done today it went kinda ruff the ground was hard and very rocky but i was able to move some earth i will say the old B-60 held up well it does need some more traction as i exspected i ran out of traction before the front end would try to raise up. And i also got to see my 314H that my brother has been using and he says he loves it the bad is that it has a miss when mowing under heavy load.

I think you are right...how can you not look good with these little guys? They already called "dibs" on the back seat riding to the beach with grandpa and grandma next month.

Looking forward to seeing you and Wildfire on the track. Good luck Dave.

I think Mike must have missed this, so I will take the liberty of answering for him. I am far from a mechanic, but I know some basics, and I'm good at figuring out how stuff works. Garry mentioned a spring on the plunger, so I started looking at whether the solenoid plunger had spring pressure. It did. I noticed the plastic fork in the starter had a notch in the center, and the plunger on the solenoid had the sides flattened except the end, so I figured out the plunger must fit into the slot in the fork in the starter. Put it back together, and success.

That's are really nice C. Mine needs a bit of work--not near as nice as yours--but I really like the C series. The Sundstrand you will enjoy. Plenty of power and very connected feeling. It's a real pleasure to work with a Horse that obeys. Welcome! You will make many friends here. And the knowledge available to you via this forum will keep your new C, and the next Horse, and the one after that.... running like new.

I am certain the rounded ones are factory. As you indicate the other could be or they could be very well done custom or perhaps pulled from another make or model.

Yes it does. OSHA would never approve of this dangurous machine today!

Great info indeed! Man! I suppose so! I got to go thank CasualObserver-(Super Mod) profusely! Here's another little tidbit: From page 54 of "Straight from the Horses Mouth . . .the Wheel Horse Story" first edition, by Mike Martino", * For the 1960's Wheel Horse models, for the center number: 0 = manual start (Usually!) 5 = Electric Start 6 = six speed 7 = Wheel-a-Matic, ( as always there were exceptions, like the 633 and Lawn Ranger models ). And as you know; the first number/s was horsepower and the last number was for the year. 633 is an exception. It's a recoil or combo. Not sure... "702 and 701's both came with electric start." There was no 751 or 752! I think when the Kohlers were used they only came with electric start. Seems they would have continued the same naming rules and used 751 and 752 but.... And not sure what the "4" stands for in the 1045 or the mystery 1046. I own a rough 654 so I will be following all you share. There are some that think the 854 was the nicest of all the Round Hoods and I'm sure you will treat her with respect! Take your time but keep us up to date!

@Dieselcowboy Did you ever post any other pictures on this? I'd love to see a few more. Yours is the only other original I've seen mounted on a Wheel Horse. Nice to know there is at least one more out there. I'd also love to see an action video.... your's looks well worn by the shape of the blade. Mine's NOS. It came from the family of a closed dealership in Iowa (via another collector in Michigan to me) .. Original owner's son claimed his dad was the one who talked Bachtold into making them. They were both a Wheel Horse and Bachtold dealership. Mine will eventually end up on either a 753 or 854 to emulate this picture.

Yep, the 854 hood is unique to only that machine and the 754 (which is a story in and of itself... apparently there was a shortage of the k181s and so they ran a special run of 854's with the k161 7hp engine calling it the 754. They are somewhat rare if found original). Thus, when you have an 854 hood with holes in it that look like they were made with a large caliber weapon (like me) its hard to find a replacement!

Glenn, just like Cheesegrader and Kurt-NEPA said it is a 1996. Most, but not all, attachments from Toro-on you just need to transpose the first two numbers of the serial number for the year.

I'm hoping you took pictures of the gears when you rebuilt it. That would save us a ton of speculation and narrowing things down. Also, like Bob said, take a good feel of the shifter when shifting concerning those detente balls.

I think its a 96 blower Glenn. I agree its a beast, but that is what it needs to be. I am rebuilding a 94 two stage this summer that I picked up last winter. It was in much worse shape than yours. While I like my single stage, this thing is much bigger and can handle deeper snow. I have experience with other brands of single and two stage blowers. In general two stage units require less power to run, but are bigger and heavier to move about. Also, the two stage is more complicated and therefore can have more issues. Strong points, They handle heavier snow better and throw it further. Short comings, Its bigger and heaver, but my 520H handles it. Chains and wheel weights are a must. When you lift this beast, the rear gets light in a hurry. You've got to get some weight out back. The biggest design issue I see with this model is the auger shaft bearings. They are bronze sleeve bearings. Mine were far beyond worn out. I would figure on replacing them. For me, I will be using cam lock ball bearings like the single stage uses. The best news is that snow blowers are not difficult to fix or maintain. Unless of course, you are working in a snow storm at 10 degrees.

,,, well anyways , its yours and good luck with your project. Welcome here , great forum to join btw central Illinois covers a lot of territory Rick

Well I finally got my Blast Cabinet set back up. I did a little work with it and I have to say the gloves from TP tools are a huge upgrade from the Harbor Freight poor excuse for gloves. I also am very pleased with the cyclonic dust collection. I decided to give this a try before buying a dedicated unit. I am still waiting on the Router speed controller to make the shop vac variable speed but in my first road test, the cabinet is a ton easier and more effiecient than previously. So at this point with the added aftermarket light, gloves, hoses, speed controller and cyclonic collector I am at ~ 325.00 which I consider a bargain. Now I also have more labor in it than ideal but it keeps me out of trouble. Now I can get back to prepping the GT14 again.

I agree with Stevasaurus. Try to get it going without the shift handle. If it runs ok without popping out of gear, than you can rule out opening up the tranny. It looks like the ball on your shifter handle might have a bit of a flat on it...possibly causing the slip out issue you are experiencing. (My tranny problem was a worn shift fork back in the day) Good pictures, and they do help. It'd be worth moving the seat out of the way if needed to try this.

Iowa can't start football this year until they get all of those combines off of the football field! (This is for that pic on FB John! )

I think he's currently... adding a basement to his basement.

OK...this post may get a little involved. These transmissions do not usually pop out of 1st gear. Yes, if the transmission is on there that came with that horse, it is a Wheel Horse #5053. That means that it is a 3 speed uni-drive with a 4 pinion differential and 1" axles. Before you end up dropping the tranny, we want to check out the shifter. Does it seem sloppy?? You may want to pull it out and check that the whole bottom of the shifter is OK. It will have a ball at the end of the shaft that engages and moves the shift forks into positions. Also, the dog point set screw that engages the shifter ball has to be locked into the hole in the shift ball...snug but not tight. Check this thread... http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/16582-help-my-shift-lever-pulled-out/ If the above does not fix your issue, you are going to have to open the trans. OK...now I am guessing here...kind of. .. What could cause this from the inside... 1. a worn cluster shaft gear...especially on the top end where 1st gear engages 2. a worn fork gear that engages both 1st and reverse...this is possible because the top part of the fork gear engages 1st and if the bottom part of that fork gear is OK...it will not pop out of reverse. 3. a bad bearing on the top (1st gear end...left side of trans) of the fork gear shaft that would put enough slack in the shaft to let the gear pop out. 4. It is possible that you may have a bad bearing on the left hand side of the cluster gear shaft, but I doubt it would just affect the 1st gear. The rest of the transmission...ie...differential, mushroom gear would not cause that issue you have. They are OK. Do you hear any noises...grindings...howls...etc?? Anything new happening that was not there 2 weeks ago?? If not, my guess is that it is the shifter being sloppy and not engaging the gear all the way. However, if you are using 1st gear all the time and then going into reverse with out coming to a complete stop (check the manual) you may have been grinding the edges of the cluster gear, and the respecting fork gear though the years, and you need a better one at this point. Do the outside observations first...only you know how you have been using...or abusing this horse. It is fixable...let us know.

did it start allready? damn still gotta get my woodshoes painted with da bears on them

Thanks Ken. I am further along than the pics indicate but I keep adding to the project. First it was the 3 point. More sand blasting and preparation. Then I stumbled across a Tiller. Same situation. Then the unforeseen delays. My Compressor needed repair soon after I started in earnest sand blasting. That delayed me a couple weeks. The Daughter/SIL and munchkins moved in. Multiple delays. Picked up a C-195 and focused on it for a couple weeks. Space to work and set up dedicated paint area is one of the bigger challenges. Nothing the rest of the forum does not experience and overcome. Somehow I really thought I would be done with this by now and even had hopes of taking it to the Big Show this past June. What was I thinking! LOL As was mentioned in someone else's GT14 restoration thread, there is a lot to these tractors and the rusted bolts and heavier thickness of every piece adds additional time and effort. But this tractor should be my worker for the remainder of my life if I can keep Hydro's going. I will have a couple spares and the next big projects will be to do an engine rebuild so I have a spare and then rebuild of a Hydro in case I have a failure. But it keeps me out of trouble and if I am not working on this one, I'll have some other project. I always have 4-5 things going on anyway. This is the seat I plan on using. I picked up some arm rests from forum member I plan to try and marry to this seat.

Who said I'm lookin' for a "real" truck?

Spent the last several days working on momma's butt buggy. She has been helping quite a bit too! Thanks to our good friend Lane Ralph, a few modifications and our buggy and it is almost "show ready"!

Craig, The more I think about it I bet it's a low voltage issue. I think the squealing noise is coming from the regulator. I think one of the coils inside it is trying to pull in and can't because of not enough juice. Same thing as a solenoid clicking.