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Browsing through CL last week I run across an ad for a "Hydro Wheel horse"I got a vague pic on my phone and it looks wretched.I venture out into the ice packed high country hills of Dimmock township PA and find a C160 auto frozen in a shed.Been there a year and ain't been started.The relief valve on the ol girl would budge and I had 50 yards of straight up hill icy driveway to conquer.I gave up!lol.He put a charge on the battery,I found my way back to his backwoods estate and this ol girl fired right up and drove herself on the truck.Came with a vgc rear discharge 43" deck but then he told me he abandoned a rototiller and snowblower at his last house!grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I am goin through this sweetie and giving it some love cause this is the first sundstrand with the parking pawl intact of the 20 or so I've had!woot woot!

Well it started snowing here around 5:30 am today. I cleaned off the drive about two hours ago and you would not know I was even out there when looking out the window! I used the 1963 Wheel Horse 633 and she amazed me several times when pushing a very heavy load of snow!

Another vote for the hand warmer packs. I don't really know why but the last few years my hands start to ache like hell when they get cold. The hand warmers help a lot, as does a liberal dose of Jack Daniels afterwards.

I think I have snow pushed 12 feet into the yard on each side of the 24 foot wide concrete drive! Just finished the second round! Moved another 4 inches. We have every bit of 10 to 12 inches of snow! We used the broom on the dogwoods because the limbs were about to the ground! And it is raining 45 miles southwest of here? Crazy!

Made my annual run to the after holiday RIte Aid toy sale. Picked up a few goodies for the kiddies next year

Had the 314 out yesterday plowing & it kicked azz The brake pedal conversion worked great, the new chains bit without spinning once & the flashing taillights kept me safe ( as if they couldn't see my fat azz on a big red tractor, but better safe than sorry ) Yea I know the drill ...pics...pics...pics Brake pedal & linkage removed New brake linkage install on clutch arm & adj. up. A return spring added to help the cheesy damper thingy Click on video of lights Its a little different working out of a wheel chair, but we gotter done !!!! Chasm

Thankfully for once I don't have to tear this hydro apart.Some mobile 1 and a new filter and I finally have a good one!I have had these ol Hydros apart so many times only to be let down not able to get replacement parts!Got a shed full all with the same problems!

I wouldn't suggest putting anything other than the proper oil in a Hydro. Kerosene or other products may present problems; multipal oil and filter changes will not.

What a great forum! I really appreciate all of the replies, have never run into a friendlier group. I decided to search for a Suburban,but will consider a Lawn Ranger if a good buy comes along. Can't wait to get started and work with you guys. Thanks again, Rick

That's right...let no grass grow under your feet... when they pop up, you gotta drop what your doing, and get on the bus gus. Buy 'em now...pick 'em up later.

That's not poaching... all's fair in the love of 's.

A while back I asked the boss if we could 'charge' all the employees a new unwrapped toy and the 'cover' fee for the employee Christmas party. Of course then knew it was for Toys for Tots. It went over big and I had the bed of my full size truck (with a cap) completely filled as well as the interior (supercab). I delivered them to the Marines during a live radio broadcast (I think the old B100 in South Bend). Toys for Tots is such a worthy cause. Children need cloths, shoes etc. but they need toys as well. I donate every year but never thought about buying them during the after Christmas sales for the following Christmas. What a great idea!!

Martin, if you sell a tractor you can buy a pair of gloves from "Thewarmingstore.com". Lol.

Sorry if i misunderstand the topic (I'm not that good with English) I have an electric clutch/pto on mine, and unless i run it somewhere near full throttle when the clutch/pto is in use + lights is on..it slowly discharges the battery. The pto/clutch draws about 5-6Amp and the lights takes another 3-4Amps. The engines charging system is good for 10A, but only when running at or close to WOT or the voltage across the battery will drop to much.

Just what is there not to like about the LAGT magazine? Brandon, Kate and their staff produce a great bi-monthly magazine. Although, I am partial to Wheel Horses, I really enjoy reading about all makes and models of lawn and garden tractors and the people who collect and restore them as well. Thoroughly enjoyed the Jan/Feb 2014 issue and I am already looking forward to receiving the next issue.

That's nature's way of telling you, you should have bought a White Toyota . Great pics and 633+, Thanks. Just relentless torrential Rain, flooding, high winds and mild Temps over here. Glad to see your back to health .

I have always run my Kohler K301 at WOT, and do the same with my 5xi twin cylinder, and yes the 5xi can drink the K301 under the table. I am a believer in the WOT principle when operating attachments for the reason that these attachments are designed to be run at a particular RPM for peak performance. The cutting deck was designed for a certain blade tip speed, to lift the grass before cutting, and to properly discharge the clippings. The snow blower or thrower is designed to throw snow of varying density. Someone ran the calculations of what would be the optimum auger and fan speed, figured out the needed gear ratio to get this from the engine, and they did this using WOT rpm's as the basis of their calculations. Can you run at less than WOT and still get "good" performance, yes, but I'm going to guess that you are not getting the optimum performance that was intended. I would also think that the added rpm's add a "reserve" that the designer calculated for, so when you hit that thick clump of grass or snow drift, you don't burry the engine. My machines have always been happy to run at WOT all day long when running attachments. If I'm moving dirt, then I am all over the throttle all day long. I would also venture to speculate that from the designers point of view, it is easier to design the implements to run at WOT, because they can then specify in the manual to operate at WOT to the consumer, rather than say to operate the blades at 2/3 throttle, the tiller at 3/4 throttle, and the snow blower at full throttle. The WOT specification takes away some of the judgment call that you would be leaving with the consumer, who would then be calling the factory to complain that at 2/3 throttle the deck is not cutting the grass well, when in reality they are operating at 1/2 throttle but it looks like 2/3 to them. Ask me how I know this would happen. When building equipment that is a "consumer product" you have to make it easy and simple for the average person to operate. You take away as much of the variable in operation as possible. Hence you specify WOT in the manual. For many on this site, you understand the inner workings of the hardware better than an "average consumer", and can be free to make you own judgments as to what rpm you want to operate your attachments, and make your own decision if you are degrading performance or not. It is no longer black and white, we are now thinking in color!! I think that these engines are going to provide adequate cooling and lubrication at a wide range of rpm's, and that WOT is not required to for these reasons in most lawn tractor applications. If you consider a snow plowing application, you really don't need WOT to plow a small snowfall of powder, so why run at WOT if you don't need to. The engine will be happy at 1/2 throttle, and it won't overheat and it won't starve for fuel or lubrication. That's my take on the WOT principle. Rick

you're looking at the empty popcorn bowl! You old fellers really should wear your glasses more often!!

rtf, It was 42 years ago that my family purchased its first wheel horse. I was just a kid at the time, and this red machine gave me such a thrill. You feed it gas and oil, it makes lots of noise, and you get to control it. When it breaks you learn to fix it. You learn to read a repair manual. You learn to read a parts diagram. You get to go to the repair shop and purchase some parts that you are going to get to install. You learn what tool is the right tool for the job. I can remember putting together a list of parts, and having to wait until Saturday when dad would be home to take me to the parts shop. All of these experiences have led me to a life of loving machinery. I think that if I didn't have that wheel horse when I was a kid, I wouldn't be able to do half of the things that I can do with my hands today. I have never been without a wheel horse in the last 42 years, and highly recommend getting your grandson his first tractor. I would make it a priority to teach him about safety around the machine. Wear safety glasses when cutting grass, and wear ear protection when running the machine. I think that the constant ringing in my ears is probably from all of the seat time I have had on the tractor without wearing hearing protection. I wear it all the time now, but when I was young I never did, and no one told me to. I wish you lots of luck, and I think that you will find this web site a great resource for you and your grandson. Rick

I was talking to my nephew at the family Christmas party last month and he told me he still had an old Bolens and hadn't done anything with all these years later, and I could have it as a retirement project if I wanted it. I went to look at it yesterday and decided I would take it. The back story is that his Dad brought it home from Pennsylvania several years ago and Mike was going to fix it up. The trans in it was not working. Mike opened it up, took one look and went looking for help with it. These trannies are a whole different animal than Wheel Horse trannies. They found a donor trans and found a guy to fix it. He swapped out the needed pats from the donor to the original and it was back in business, till he found that it wouldn't move in neutral. So there it sits to this day in his garage, and he is no longer interested in it. I found and downloaded the manuals for it and started reading. I narrowed it down to 1967, 68, or 69 by what I could read of the ID tag. If anyone knows how to bring back the serial number on a decal so it can be read please let me know. I think I have solved the problem of it not moving in neutral. This trans has a variable tension differential and a pin lock release to allow the tractor to be moved by hand in neutral. I'll let Mike know this so he knows it probably doesn't need any more repair work on it. As it stands, I'll have some work to do to put it all back together and get in running. He said it ran before so the Wisconsin should be ok. It also has a deck and a snowblower that goes with it which he said are in good shape. Those are still at his Dad's house and will come with it. If all goes well I plan to pick this up when the weather warms up this spring. I took a few pics as best I could, and yes those wheel weights come behind it come with it too, among other things he said. So they aren't the greatest. but here they are....

To bad you werent closer I have a few 160s that need tlc I would of deal with.

mine leaks from the valve cover and it gets all over the front,great tractor to save,they are strong and other than the hydro very simple to work on

I would have to agree with this......

Sorry to hear of your bad fortune, With the out drive sprocket being mounted outside the brake drum you probably put a lot of extra load on the bearings. May need to fabricate an outer bracket with a pillow block to share the load. With all you have done I know you can overcome this. Good luck.

Woke up to a balmy forty eight, and windy this morning... predict it will dip down to four whole degrees overnight tonight. I'm thinkin' the forty four degree swing is gonna be a rude awakening when I leave for work tomorrow.

Thats the one I was referring to. Thanks TT

Nice save, I like the goodyear tires in front of her.

I usually tell the clerk I am buying for Toys for Tots ,and ask when the toys will be reduced to 75%. Of course they can't tell me a date so they just wink, and tell me when to check . They really had some nice $20-$40 toys @75% off this year. A good deal for me and some great gifts for the Kids next year.

Great cause...my daughter and I bought about 5 big bags of toys this year for them...probably filled one of their boxes. They have a box where she works. Fantastic. That is some nice stuff you bought...thumbs up.

Martin, what you want to get is the glove/mittens that pull over your fingers. Fits on like a glove and your fingers can stick out if you want...or you can pull over the mitten piece that completes the glove. I think they use them for hunting...I use them for ice fishing and running the tractors. They are great. If you are interested, I can put a picture up.

Lane...looks like we are all having a real winter this year. It is starting to look like the winter of 1978 here. I am a lot older now and have run out of places to push the white stuff. At least, so far, it has been the light powdery stuff. Be safe out there. BTW...excellent pictures mate.

Thanks Chazm for the ifno. I will probably wire my tail lights to flash when I push snow cause I have to drive down the street to my neighbors to clean his drive. I don't want to get run over by someone texting or doing some of the crazy things people do when they drive.

Lol Eric yes lets honor the leftovers. acually the one wasnt a 145 auto it was a 175 auto. im going to try not to scrap this stuff, it will eventually find a new home.

Looks like what we had here. Bright sunny -12 deg right now about 70 miles north of Indy.

Good for you Chasm...glad you were able to get it done. Be careful out there.

Back to where we started pipe smoking was big in the 70's

Apparently your B-60 isn't stock. (someone added an electrical system) Member "Rollerman" had the electric over hydraulic pump on something. I recommend sending him a PM - or maybe he'll see this topic.

Chazm, nice job, good idea with that flasher. I like safety. Wonder if you could do that to the headlights to? Glenn

that's all right you guys can keep it over there LOL!

Get some butyl cellusolve from the paint store, you'll probably have ti sign for it, drain the trans and refill with a mix of 4 parts oil to 1 part butyl cellusolve and run it just long enough to get the oil warm then do another oil change and you should be good to go. it also works good in engines especially to clean antifreeze out of a crankcase to prevent bearing damage

How about a big glass of my moonshine against one of your Rock N Rye at this years show? I'll give you a big hit of it anyway so it's not technically a bet but... I see what your saying after rereading the post

I know he said Mike, I know he did, I know he did!!!

I own a tall shoot single and a fully rebuilt dual stage. The single is the way to go for 98% of our Jersey storms. I use my dual in upstate NY primarily for the snow banks left by my plow guy. As for getting the job done the single is much faster. Seriously no matter how slow you go it still beats wrestling a walk behind blower.

I bent an open end box wrench to get at the bolts under the carb.

I agree. That sounds like a plan.

Flush it with kerosene don't run it just free spin and put fresh oil in run it then change the oil again to make sure you got it all out

Here are some photos for you guys. Nothing special. I have quit a few restored tractors. This one will be the next. The John Deere A in my profile pictures is one of mine. For right now, this will be a worker. I need to find a parts tractor before I repaint this one . I need half the transaxle because this one is broke off at the hitch. The dash support someone cut with a torch for some unknown reason. Also a few other things. So for me, in order to justify a piant job , I will need to collect a few parts yet. Then I will tear down completely and paint. I really like this model and I think it warrants a full restoration. In these pictures the trans in refilled , new filter and working great. Im surprized that the axle seals are not leaking. I guess I got lucky. Now Im going to put on my chains and get ready for the northeastern storm coming that know body knows how many inches we will get. Happy New Years Kyle

I've got a couple of Wh rescue photo's as well.. A few old Workshack extension photos.. Rip it up and push it into a pile with the 312-8. Then cart it away behind a Raider 10.

Excellent job Lars ! , Good point....maybe fab up a Stubby Lever & Rock Shaft and remove the Lift Lever Ass'y ?,

Stephen, I sent you a PM, but am reposting here. I hadn't seen this thread until after our conversation. Hopefully this doesn't start a war... GO! D250's are a strange breed. They were Wheel Horse's Edsel and were a true international effort. American specs, German design, French engine, Italian steering gearbox.... They were extremely advanced for their time, but were sales flops. In 1976 1000 units were imported and sold over the next two years. 1978 brought in another 500 of a revised model, then 1979 brought another 500 of the improved version. WH listed them in the product listings into the early 1980's, so they weren't flying off the shelf. They even began to promote special credit terms, freebies, and rental store sales to move them. Anyway, the 1976 model is distinguished by its generator (as opposed to an alternator), single action hydraulics, and weaker transaxle. The 1978/79's had dual action hydraulics with 4 couplers on the front under the grille, an alternator, and a slightly revised transaxle mounting and linkage that greatly improved reliability. The dashboard on the 78/79's was also revised and improved and the engagement for the PTO moved from a foot pedal to a lever. The three point hitch on the 76's was not fitted with spherical bearing "eyes" on the draft links. Instead the lower hitch arms were just punched to accept the pins from the implement. Later model hitches had the eyes that were standard on every other three point hitch ever made... The 1976's in particular were plagued with self-destructing transaxles...especially when used for tilling or heavy ground work like plowing or loading. I don't reacall the entire set of peculiars, but the general explanation is that poor lubricant or low levels combined with excessive load caused the internal axle bushings to wear. The axle/differential would sag or move around a little bit and the worm gear teeth wouldn't mesh properly. Catastrophic failure would then result since the worm gear was made (as are most worm gears) of relatively soft bronze. The teeth would shear and the whole tranaxle would fail. Warranty replacements were apparently a huge cost for WH and Gutbrod. A real nightmare according to guys who were there at the time. In 1978 the revisions were slight - and again I don't remember everything - but the improvement was significant. I think the linkage was improved to make shifting more positive and engaged the gearing better. But the bottom end benefitted by a revised mounting angle of the transaxle housing to the frame that caused loads to be transferred internally differently. So the trans was much more durable. But still, if used too heavily they too were prone to letting go. One of the really critical things about their problems was the location of the oil fill plug in the transaxle housing. Going from memory, I think it's on the right hand side of the transaxle behind the right rear tire. To check the fluid, you almost have to remove the wheel. To fill the fluid, you might as well tip the tractor on its side since the framerail immediately above the check/fill port basically blocks access to the thing. So, many people neglected to check and maintain the transaxle. Coupled with the marginal design and high precision...you get the idea. Would I mow with one? Yep. Just be very anal about transaxle maintenance. Would I plow/blade with one? No. Would I run a tiller? No. Loader? No way! Apparently the tiller, which is pretty hard to find anyway, really was rough on these things. I'm not sure mechanically why, but I guess the constant pushing and pounding was hard on the axle and exacerbated the problems. In the old days before Redsquare, it wasn't uncommon to find random internet posts about blown D250 rears on tiller-equipped tractors. Really, the D250 was a precesion engineered piece of equipment. Unfortunately it was introduced into a market and dealer network that lacked the finesse required to keep 'em going and didn't even have the metric tools needed to work on them. The combinations of the machine's fussiness and bad maintenance and abuse probably did most of them in. I'm under the impression that dealers hated them. And man were they expensive. Like $5k in 1976. Charlie (Charlies D250) used his D250 extensively and even ran it in tractor pulls (I think). I know he complete disassembled and rebuilt his prior to any of this, so perhaps his was in perfect tune, a good one, or he was just lucky. Maybe he made some mods. Anyway, he ought to be on your contact list. Now, I really like the Edsels. They are very smooth running, quiet, and extremely powerful. The Renault engine used was rated at 19.9 hp, but the same engine configuration in other applications (Groundsmasters, forklifts, etc) cranked out 35+ hp. Same carb, timing, governor, etc. So the 19.9 hp rating was probably just a lie to get around the regulations that required seatbelts and ROPS. The 60" deck from the JD 400 used on these tractors mows beautifully and pumps a tremendous amount of air. The original intent was for the D250 to be an "estate" tractor. All it was supposed to do was mow and clear snow. But the size and power meant the desire to use it heavily was too great. So they got used as compact utility tractors. Fuel pumps on the engines tend to go bad over time as any mechanical/camshaft driven pump is apt to do. The Renault replacement is (or was last time I cared to look) hard to find and expensive, so replace it with an electric one if it dies. Other than occasionally on ebay, I've never seen a rebuild kit for the Solex carburator. Points, cap, and rotor are hard to find but I think Charlie has a source. By the way, I think one of the spark plugs cannot be taken out without removing the distributor...if I remember correctly. The ignition switch on the 76's is goofy with a really special key...push the key in to enable the ignition. Pull it out to shut it off. Rotate it one click for parking lights. A second click for headlights. I think the 78's have a more conventional switch. Waterpumps aren't a bad quality or bad design, but at this age they often go bad. I've been seeing them periodically on ebay, so somebody must have found a source. If you see one, buy it. The front/mid PTO shaft also serves double duty as the front axle pivot. Bearings here often get sloppy. Duane Baerpath knows how to replace them and I thought posted a source on here at one point. What else.... That's about the whole brain dump for now. If you want to rely on one for a weekly chore tractor I think you need to prepare yourself to be patient and creative. These aren't supported by WH anymore, so parts aren't really available. Engine parts can probably be found since Continental picked up the Renault industrial line a while back. But transmission stuff is extinct. Deere probably still has deck parts. The only differences between a 400 deck and a 250 deck are the hangers. Everything else is carryover from the Deere. I still have a 76 Edsel that I'm not sure what I'm going to do with. I wouldn't buy another 76. A 78/79, definately. Just a better tractor all the way around. I see that the one you're considering is a newer one. Go for it. If it doesn't work out then it will probably be an easy resell. End of sermon, Steve