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Mastiffman

06-42st05 Snow Thrower Restore Started...

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Okay, got the last of parts and the brand new set of decals! 

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On 10/23/2017 at 12:54 PM, WVHillbilly520H said:

Last year I was in snow thrower overkill, a single tall chute on 1 520H another on a 520Xi ,a 2 stage on the anniversary 520H, and a plow on the 3rd 520H, Now down to the plow and 2stage plus the Mahindra good luck and happy snow chucking, Jeff.

 

 


Does this chute swivel mechanism every get clogged up with snow in so much that it doesn't turn or makes it hard to turn?

Also, has anyone use an electric motor to turn this or a hydraulic cylinder to turn the chute?

Hillbilly520_snow_thrower_chute.jpg

Edited by Mastiffman

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I've noticed over time the Duplicolor brand doesn't seem to hold up very well . I've bought the acid additive to add to regular enamel primers and had great success with that - you almost can't remove it with a grinder since it sinks in so deeply in the metal . It seems the Rustoleum brand etching primer is a lot better but it's hard to find at times - some Ace and Auto Zone stores carry it . Best in a can I've found is the SEM - but man are they proud of it -

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/sem-products-4895/chemicals---fluids-16461/paint---body-repair-16614/paint---primer-surfacers---self-etching-19855/self-etching-primer/39683/4711318?q=etching+primer

 

There is a seller on the auction site that has 2" strips of 1055 high carbon steel at a reasonable cost per foot - they have various widths/lengths/thickness as well as some that are pre-beveled . I used that seller's stock to rebuild the blade on the big D - seems to be good stuff . You'll need a good quality cobalt drill to cut the holes , but the stuff holds up to wear a lot better than standard 1018 or similar stock steel .

 

All the housing bolts are typical torque values for the size of the fastener - crank it down till it breaks , then back up 1/4 turn...lol .

 

Sarge

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Yeah I used the rustoleum etching primer on my recent 1988 Scag SW52-13BV Walk Behind Restore over the summer and it seemed to do very well. Although I haven't really put it through any extensive use. I'll save that for the new owner, whomever that may be...  It got a full working through. Fully disassembled and reconditioned every part, nut and bolt or replaced, every bushing replaced and some added, all new grips and decals with some new parts and pulled the engine part and MIC'd just about everything that coould really be an issue and replaced the Piston, Rod, Rings, Counterweight rods and honed the cylinder, adjusted the valves, welded up many large cracks in the deck, new spindle bearings, 2 year old blades sharpened balanced and painted and added and oil filter. Runs like a top now. Will be sad to see it go but it was worth the time I had it. 9 years. Was painted a brunt orange color with over spray everywhere. 

 Ha ha. I like that Sarge! 

"Crank it down till it breaks and then back it off a 1/4 turn." My brother in law nick named "Torquey" for that reason. ;) 

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Edited by Mastiffman

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So the 1055 HC is going to last longer is the key?

 

 Is that what the toro scraper bars are mode of or is this an upgrade feature?

Edited by Mastiffman

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20 hours ago, Mastiffman said:


Does this chute swivel mechanism every get clogged up with snow in so much that it doesn't turn or makes it hard to turn?

Also, has anyone use an electric motor to turn this or a hydraulic cylinder to turn the chute?

Hillbilly520_snow_thrower_chute.jpg

The snow doesn't bother it as much as leaving it set out side to rust, then there's the plastic/phenolic guides under the chute that over time get brittle and break $55 ea to replace, as far as electric motors yes is has been done check out some of the 2stsge builds with electric chute rotator and deflector actuators, Jeff.

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On 10/23/2017 at 12:42 PM, Mastiffman said:

I might try and figure out a way to make some paper gaskets for this to seal in the grease once I get the implement back together. 

 

Cereal box ^^^

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Digger 66
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Ha ha. Good idea. But I do have gasket paper I could use. 

 

Hillbilly, I will consider that info. 

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Okay, so another question. 

 Choice of Clear Coat?

 Semi Gloss or High Gloss... Seems that high gloss would make it look a little unnatural of a finish. At least abnormally shiny. 

 What do you think? any photos of the comparison of finishes on wheel horse equipment?

 

Thanks. 

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Here is the current update.

Saturday I was able to Rust Stop treat, Self-etching prime and paint with Regal Red the housing, plates, lift bracket and lower chute. 

Sunday I fabricated side for the top half of the chute from 16 gage steel, Rust Stop treat, Self-etching prime, filler primer, wet sand, filler prime and paint that and the lift bar, as well as cleaned up and Rust Stop treat all of the rest of the parts. 

Today will be etch priming everything and painting. 

 I'm ordering some Spray-max 2K 2 part epoxy to clear the entire thing before reassembly. 

 

 Any feed back on whether Semi Gloss (semi matte is what they call it) or gloss would be a better match? I'm thinking semi-gloss. 

 

Some photos. 
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This was a shot to show how I rewelded the lower chute back onto the swivel ring being it was merely revited on before. I do realize that the holes are still there. I will take care of those somehow. (non welding ideas welcome).

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Housing. I didn't use any filler primer on the housing and now that it's painted I kind of regret it. Although it looks nice still. Would it be a waste to filler prime over the areas that rust damage is seen or should I just leave it at this point. It's been two days since painting. was thinking of wet sanding and hitting with filler primer. 

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As far as I can tell at best the original scrapers and replacements were only 1018 steel or less . 1055HC has some higher strength properties and is much harder overall . If you go that route - you'll have to use a cobalt bit to drill it as regular HSS will not cut for very long before burning the tip off .

 

Highest gloss will yield longer lasting results . More shine also resists anything sticking to the paint or penetrating the surface as well .

 

You could easily weld those holes shut with a copper backing plate of at least 1/8" thickness of copper - the weld will not stick to it and it pulls the heat away from the sheet metal too .Harbor Freight sells a copper welding spoon , or at least they used to carry them pretty cheap .

 

Sarge

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More Photos. Making progress and switching paint choices up a tad... I know it's the factory paint scheme butt I think that it will look pretty good. Along with being freshly painted I  also like contrasting colors. 

I got the auger all straighten up and a couple of breaks in the chute paddles fixed. The helix's had some dents, bends and sharp edges. I went through the whole thing and straightened everything the best I could. I wire wheeled everything that I could reach my 4.5" grinder and then hit the inner portion of the helix's with 80grit and that did a decent job. The rest, I slopped some navel jelly on and that did the best I cold ask for the condition. I washed it down thoroughly with some warm water and dawn dish soap and called it day. Last step before self-etching primer was to hit it was rust stop and I'm sure that took care of the rest of any left over rust I couldn't get. After all, it's going to take abuse anyhow and I'm sure this wont be the last time I pull it off and take care of it again. 

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This was the best I got without hitting the housing with 5 cans of filler primer...
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This was the area of concern when I was curious about sanding and applying some filler over to create a better finish. 
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The top section of the chute turned out pretty good. Definitely better than it was. Some urethane clear coat and some silicone should allow the snow to fly right out without issues.  As you'll see there are a few pits on the tip and sides. This was where there wasn't any paint and covered in rust when I went to go just replace bearings... I could stand to look at it for another winter. :) 

Once again... 
 

BEFORE:

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AFTER:

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And Finally.... 

 Here is where I decided to change the course of action for paint scheme. 

This is primed but will be black.... 

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As the pulley's and drive shaft, bearing flanges and skids will all be... 
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Looks great!  Makes me want to restore mine.  I'd go with the gloss clear too.  I don't think you will notice the difference and it should be more sleek so the snow has less chance of sticking.  Just my :twocents-02cents:

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Thanks. Yeah it was time. When I pulled it out and started in on it I just could help it. It needed it badly. I personally think that it would have deteriorated very quickly after this year if I didn't do it. No need for that when it can be prevented with some elbow grease and some man hours to boot. I already order the semi gloss but I went to the spry max site and there's little difference between hi gloss and semi-gloss. 

 

 Either way it can be buffed to a shine as well if need be. I'll see how it performs this winter and take it from there. I'll make sure to put a nice shell of turtle wax on it. ;)

More to come. 

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Placed one of the auger's bearing plates on the side of the housing... 

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I also got the auger fully Rust Stopped, Self-etching primed and Painted today with 4 coats of Regal Red! 

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That's going to work out pretty well - you going to add the rubber flaps to help seal that auger to the housing at the discharge area in the center ? Probably should have mentioned that earlier - it makes a big difference on how far those single stage units chuck the snow...

 

Sarge

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Thanks. I believe so too. 

I would like to add the rubber flaps. I was thinking that I might able to get away with a rubber paddle that spans both discharge scoops on one side and only have to put one carriage bolt on either side of the center plate of the auger... Ultimately making only two paddles and attaching them with 4 carriage bolts for the whole auger. Or will I have to make 4 separate paddles?

I will be honest though, there's very little clearance between the housing and auger and it was snow a good 25ft -30ft at about 10ft-12ft high if I were to make an estimate. And that was with the spraying type of throw from the old style snow chute. I will definitely take a look at the clearance again once I get things clear coated with the urethane and start reassembling. 

 Another question... 90% of the fasteners just have rust on the exterior of the Head of the bolt and the nut. If I were to wire wheel them that would take off any zinc coating. Not like that would really even matter at this point because they are rusted. It almost seems like a waste to purchase all new bolts just because of a little surface rust. After I cleaned them up, would heating them up slightly (not red or anything) and dipping them in oil and simply wiping them off well help to stop corrosion? Not sure if that's even a proper method potential rust preventative or inhibitor.

Or should I just clean up the nuts and bolts that are good, prep the surfaces of all of the parts, reassemble and then coat everything with the Urethane clear coat? 

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You can clean the bolts and blue them - but if they are not oiled on occasion they will still rust once the zinc is gone . If you're going to replace any and they aren't under a high stress load you can use 18-8 stainless steel instead . The price cost comes into play but it also prevents that rust spreading into your newly painted parts - it will migrate wherever you put a bolt due to that bolt removing some paint as it's loaded down to full torque .

 

The paddles aren't super necessary - but they do help with velocity a lot . The trick is to get rubber with a high enough durometer to prevent it wearing out too fast and not so far to be brittle in cold weather . I set mine up with a backing plate behind the rubber and used carriage bolts to secure it to the paddles . Remember , any hardware in there creates a place for ice to start collecting and it will grow in size with use - just like a mower deck will build up with grass around any bolt heads first eventually plugging the deck up . Some decks I've rebuilt get welded studs instead of bolts and everything is ground dead flush to keep the smoothest surface possible inside the deck - makes a huge difference over time and the shell lasts much longer with less cleaning . Most spindle mounting areas can be relieved in the spindle holes themselves to allow a small tig weld for clearance - as well as welded posts to hold springs and such instead of letting them sit inside the deck to catch debris and rust it out . Think forwardly and things will last longer .

 

Sarge

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The rubber would go on the back side of the paddles with a carriage bolt through the front of the paddle where the snow would slide off of, correct. That makes the most sense to me. Keep friction low. It would probably make the most sense to either drill a counter sunk hoe and weld a bolt in sticking out the back side or just tap the hole so a bolt could be screwed in from the back that wold sit flush with the front of the paddle. 

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Paddle can sit on either side - it will build up some snow/ice on it regardless and on the back it will work more efficiently . You could use carriage bolts - I used to cut the square hole using a triangle or 3 corner file but it's much easier to use a 4 corner or square file to do them . Just made two square holes in the mower deck to fasten the discharge adapter for a lawn vac yesterday on the 16 Auto's 48" deck - I prefer the Simonds files in double cut , makes short work of making round holes square to fit carriage bolts . Air saw and small fine tooth blade works also but it's harder to control it and not make the hole too big - I've done that on thicker metals at times . Read up on using a file properly and they will work faster and last much longer - never use them to "saw" the metal - files are intended to work on the push stroke , never on the pull stroke which will quickly dull them .

 

I surf the big auction site for US , German and Swiss made files in various shapes for a lot of metal work in fabrication and such - it's tough to find good quality files that will last and do the work correctly . To square cut a 1/4" hole you need a file about 6" long - go to whatever maker's web site you prefer and look for the part number and specs on sizing - there are a lot of variations depending upon either American Pattern , Swiss Pattern , Rifflers and needle files . Learning what is what type/style helps a lot in buying the correct one for the job . #0 or #00 in Swiss pattern double cut will leave a good finish and cut pretty fast - hunt for Grobet part number 31.349 6" square file , that one will cut 1/4" square holes nicely . Grobet is Swiss made quality steel - should last a lifetime if taken care of - files made in China or India , ect are hit and miss and usually much lower quality . I think now I have 7 different square files alone - use them a lot more than you'd expect . I still have many of my grandfather's hand files - all US made and still sharp with many being well over 50yrs of service now . In comparison , I've had brand new India made ones that barely did the one task I needed before dulling....

 

Just an fyi - Nicholson's newer files are not hardened the same way they used to be done . The new ones are still US in many cases but they will not last like NOS US made ones from pre-80's era . Same deal with Channelock brand pliers - they now use laser hardening instead of fully forging/tempering their metal - it's why the teeth round off so easily as they are only surface hardened . On tools I've worn out or need new types I end up many times making orders from International sellers to buy direct from Germany and Switzerland - they do not tolerate low-quality tools . Knipex pliers are horribly expensive and sold widely across the US - you pay for their quality but once you use them you'll never go back . Old stock Nicholson , Swiss Grobet and US Pferd as well as US Simonds files are made to last a lifetime - just don't drop one ....lol . Don't discount old stock US made files - a lot of really good makers have gone by the way of the Dodo bird in tools - I've got quite a few that I can't even find the history of the original company and they are some seriously high quality tools .

 

In the end , I probably own far too many tools - but , nah....no way .

 

Sarge

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Yeah I figured on the back with a carriage bolt would be best option. Less for the snow to pass around/ over before sailing through the air to it's new home. ;)

Great info on the files. Seems like you been around the block a file or ten... ;)

I did purchase a square file from when I made a new scraper bar for the dozer blade restore which needs a liiiiitle bit of a "touch up" now due to some excavation this summer. Top looks okay, bottom is all scraped up. smh. Oh well something else to do I guess. you can see a bit of the extent of the use in the second photo below on the right in the background. There's even a rock stuck in the bottom hole. smh. 

 

I started in on the surface prep for the clear coat this evening to create a mechanical bond. I think that I will be patient and wait for the clear cot to arrive before applying the top next time to use chemical bonding. Would have been way easier. lol

 I'm using the grey scouring pads which seems to be doing the same job as about 500-600 wet sanding without all of the mess and it dies well getting into the corners. It was almost sad ruining such a nice finish but the durability will be worth the effort and the shine will come back for the most part. 

 I got the housing, the lift bracket, both chute pieces, the lift shaft and all three plates ready. The shine has been turned into a flat red finish now. 

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 More to come. 
 

Edited by Mastiffman

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I know - it's tough sanding down a nice finish but leveling it with a Scotch brite pad or sanding block makes a much smoother surface and knocks that hard surface off for the next layer to bond correctly . Hopefully the clear will not boil the base coat - it shouldn't but you might want to read up on both product's re-coat time limits/rules , those are the key to using something from another brand/source . It's going to be tough to take that nice looking blower out in the snow and slush when it looks that good , lol ... but it will perform much better than new .

 

Sarge

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I agree. I did some looking and there are reports of successful use on both Rustoleum and Krylon Fusion products. I will test this out on one of the side plates first. 

 It should boil up the paint within an hour shouldn't it?

 Here is the finish of the satin/ semi gloss that I'll be using... This is from the website. The photo of the hi-gloss is like water. 


 

spraymax_satin_finish.jpg

Edited by Mastiffman

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It generally shows up within 4hrs as the solvents evaporate . I'm sure you're safe at this point with enough time allowing the base coat to off-gas it's solvents . Most of that comes from the two layers using different solvents - some are not compatible with each other . Problem is trying to figure out what is in the coatings - they don't like to publish that info but generally in the warning label it will tell you what type of solvent was used .

 

Sarge

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Gotcha. I'll see if I can upload a SS of the data sheets soon. 

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