AGs vs Chains

[pfrederi 17,147]

I know there has been a lot of discussion on AGs vs chains etc.  You would think that the big Carlisle ags on my 310-8 would do fairly well hauling things in the winter.  Not so.  I had planned on using the 310 this winter to haul coal up from the barn to the shop and house.  I have a horse trough trailer that holds about 750lbs of coal  (10-14 day supply)..  My faithful Lawn ranger has hauled it up for many years with out a problem.  Tried today to test the 310, I hauled the ashes down in a 30 gal trash can and dumped them then came back up empty.  The 310 with AGs barely made it back up the hill, lots a wheel spin no way she could bring up the coal wagon.  So the 310 is going away till mud season and the 49 yr old Ranger will go back to work.

[oldlineman 1,450]

It has been my experience living all my life in snow country Somerset Pa. that the best traction on snow or ice is 2 link chains on turf tires 

[DTOM 124]

Chains hands down. I use the diamond pattern with V bars on the D250 with snowthrower.

[Achto 26,562]

Why not try throwing some chains on over the ags? This works with farm tractors. Our Ford 871 is useless in the winter without chains on, even with a 3cu ft block of cement hanging off of the three point.

[953 nut 51,710]

    Friction (traction) is based in part on pounds per square inch of pressure reaching the ground. With those wide tires on the rear of the 310 you need substantially more weight on the rear end to obtain the traction the Ranger has traction; or just put on chains like the rest of us.   

[GlenPettit 1,714]

Weight, weight, weight!

If those Ag-Lug tires were filled with fluid (like RV anti-freeze or Rim-Guard) and had weights on them, they would have gotten the job done, your lugs could hold 6-7 gal (60#+) each, plus a 50# weight, then they would easily have done the job on your ground, ––– but on hard smooth ice and up a slight sloop, probably not.  Chains on your Turf tires are much better on hard smooth ice, (but not deep 12" snow) but then weight in/on the Turf tires would make them much better.

 

You want as little contact on the ground as you can have, fewer square inches on the ground gives you more pounds per square inch = more bite = more traction,  and extra weight will greatly increase that traction.  With hard smooth Ice, especially if on a sloop,the chains will dig into the ice and grab it, much better than a Lug Tire can, but then on rough ground and snow, I like the Weighted Lug Tires much better.  All depends on the situation.

 

That big load of coal looks like a heavy load, but not for a Ranger.  (PS: up your tire pressure in the Winter, to 20#).

Glen

Edited December 15, 2016 by GlenPettit

[TDF5G 2,051]

1 hour ago, GlenPettit said:

You want as little contact on the ground as you can have, fewer square inches on the ground gives you more pounds per square inch = more bite = more traction,  and extra weight will greatly increase that traction.  

 

Yep, in snow, narrow tires will provide greater traction than wide ones.

[pfrederi 17,147]

I use it year round and in muddy season i do not want to make big ruts that would come from fluid filled tires.  Also I understand chains on AGs.  You have to have double ring chains or duo-link..like I use on the big tractors.  My DC3 has 600lbs of iron weights but doesn't go out with out chains in the winter.  The Farmall M had 700 lbs of beet juice in each rear and also is worthless once the ground freezes hard with out chains. (Hard to find double ring  or duo links for Wheel Horses)

 

Yes narrow is best.  My Plow and blower Horses have 6.00 12s with weights and chains.

 

Haven't had to use the Case yet this year and didn't use it at all last year.  the Horses are more than enough.

 

Guess i was just surprised how poorly the Ags on the 310 did.

[elliot ness 1,916]

Chains, but everyone that talked about the narrow tire being better is 100% correct. Many years ago I bought a new 76 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 with 750/16's mud and snow tires, before the first snow fall I thought I wanted big wide tires, so 700.00 $ later I was stuck, so the narrow tires went back on and never looked back, Oh I sold the big tire and as I remember I only lost maybe 200.00. lesson well learned.

[squonk 38,932]

My 1267 I have the STD 23x8.50 turfs with chains filled with fluid for plowing snow along with the 50 lb. weights. But for summer garden plowin it's 6-12 ag's with the weights.

[Ed Kennell 35,773]

My first car was a 1930 Dodge Brothers 4 door sedan.  It had 4X19" tires on wooden spoke wheels and  It would go places I would never dream of taking my F-150 4X4.

If I did get stuck and needed extra traction, I always carried a hank of clothesline  rope and just wrapped it around the tire thru the spokes.

Narrow tires are the bomb.

 

 

[ACman 7,507]

True story ... ACcuz had a 84 Half ton pick up with a homemade flatbed , plow , and skinny tires . That truck pulled a semi out of a ditch ! Skinny tires are the best for winter hands down .

[slim67 2,730]

My Dads first Sears Suburban had 23 x10.50 s with chains and 105 lb weights on each wheel. We put the weights and chains on his next two ST-16s and now they are on his Ariens S-12. They have always work good on the ice. We never take the chains off either.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Them skinny tires have the best traction.  

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

@AMC RULES, that's wrong on so many levels, that it is funny ...

[Ed Kennell 35,773]

                                                                                      Craig....    More than...

Edited December 16, 2016 by Ed Kennell

[Coadster32 793]

I noticed in this this picture...you might consider moving in your hubs a bit. Looks like there's alot of room to the transaxle. I agree with most said as far as traction. I also switched from loaded AG's to turfs and chains with better results.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Coadster32

[rmaynard 14,898]

17 hours ago, oldlineman said:

It has been my experience living all my life in snow country Somerset Pa. that the best traction on snow or ice is 2 link chains on turf tires 

I have to agree. When I got my B-100 back in 1993, it had AG's with chains. It was the roughest ride I had ever experienced. I spend the first year plowing with that combination, then the next winter I tried without chains. That was a big mistake. The for the next five years, I plowed snow with the AG/Chain combination. Not bad, but rough ride. Then when I had to replace the tires, I went with Carlisle Turf Masters. For winter I put on 2-link chains. What a difference. Reasonably smooth ride, even with chains, but the traction was all the difference in the world. So I agree with oldlineman, turfs and chains for me.

[rmaynard 14,898]

@AMC RULES Craig, I don't know where you find these timely videos, but that one is too funny.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,369]

Now just my  but looking at what I have to mow, loaded weighted AGs work best for me and I'm a little on the cheap side so I don't have extra wheels/tires combos and I don't like change them out or attachments much either so a set of 2 links over the AGs in winter and I'm set all good no traction problems and as far as ride 7-10 psi in the loaded tires no issues for me,Jeff.

[pfrederi 17,147]

3 hours ago, Coadster32 said:

I noticed in this this picture...you might consider moving in your hubs a bit. Looks like there's alot of room to the transaxle. I agree with most said as far as traction. I also switched from loaded AG's to turfs and chains with better results.

 

 

I have wondered about the spacing...The hub and axle end are flush.  I am reasonably sure the axles are original to the tractor, not sure why the big gap

[slim67 2,730]

47 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Now just my  but looking at what I have to mow, loaded weighted AGs work best for me and I'm a little on the cheap side so I don't have extra wheels/tires combos and I don't like change them out or attachments much either so a set of 2 links over the AGs in winter and I'm set all good no traction problems and as far as ride 7-10 psi in the loaded tires no issues for me,Jeff.

That is a beautiful piece of land there. 

[Ed Kennell 35,773]

I know we have discussed this in other threads, but while we are talking traction, I'll say it again.

Two years back I bought a 312 auto for resale.

It came  equipped with a 42" SD deck, cab, 48" blade, hyd lift, wheel weights  and rubber chains.

After using it last winter to clear the five driveways of my neighbors, it is no longer for sale . It is now my dedicated snow plower.

I was pleasantly surprised and amazed at the traction the rubber chains possessed.

I have added the foot control to free up a hand to operate the lift and the antisway  bracket on the front attach-a-matic.

This set up really works well in the areas where many changes in direction and back dragging from garage doors is required. 

Another plus is, If a wheel does spin, I don't have to be concerned about scuffing up a neighbors newly coated blacktop.

 

 

 

 

[TDF5G 2,051]

3 hours ago, rmaynard said:

I have to agree. When I got my B-100 back in 1993, it had AG's with chains. It was the roughest ride I had ever experienced. I spend the first year plowing with that combination, then the next winter I tried without chains. That was a big mistake. The for the next five years, I plowed snow with the AG/Chain combination. Not bad, but rough ride. Then when I had to replace the tires, I went with Carlisle Turf Masters. For winter I put on 2-link chains. What a difference. Reasonably smooth ride, even with chains, but the traction was all the difference in the world. So I agree with oldlineman, turfs and chains for me.

This my exact experience also.  Only haven't have enough snow yet to really try out the turfs and chains.

 

On narrow tires, I learned that from my uncle when I was a kid.  I worked at his service station in the country and he would give me a ride home in bad weather, (I lived close enough to ride my bike or walk).  We got about 8" of snow one day and he had studded narrow 16" tires snow tires on his 1970 Chev 3/4 ton 2 wheel drive.  He put chains on and threw a little weight in the bed and we went down the blacktop before the county had cleared it with no problems. 

[Sarge 3,462]

I just run 2-link spacing hd tire chains on my ags on 2 of my tractors - pretty much unstoppable , especially the old 1277 which has RV antifreeze and wheel weights (145lbs each wheel/tire) . It did finally break the trans mount plate - need to repair that in the spring . Same on the D-180 and it's weight alone with 50lb weights makes it drive right through 3' deep snow without issue .

 

 

 

Sarge