TORO Response to Website Timeline Inquiry

[SylvanLakeWH 24,146]

Was checking out the Toro website the other day and noticed their history timeline had no mention of Wheel Horse - at all. Somewhat surprised, I sent an email to them asking about the omission. Very quick response...

Thought you all might find their response interesting:

 

Mr. Schafer, Thank you for your inquiry regarding Wheel Horse and our company timeline. When a company has been in business for 100+ years it is a challenge creating a timeline that is informative yet concise enough that people will read it. Through the years we have many achievements and have made a number of acquisitions – some acquisitions helped transform our businesses and industries - others have been moderately successful – and others outright mistakes. Since we have so much material to deal with we had to set some guidelines as to what to list.  When it came to acquisitions, we limited the listings to those from which we continue to derive business, today. I believe we listed the following: ·         Whirlwind – We gained entry into the rotary mower business and through a series of important innovations increased customer demand for rotaries and actually revolutionized the industry turning a once small niche product into a dominant product segment. ·         Moist O Matic –We gained re-entry into and established leadership in the golf irrigation business  and revolutionized underground irrigation systems (consumer and professional) through the pioneering of plastics. ·         Lawn-Boy – still an active brand under which we sell walk power mowers ·         Exmark – still an active brand and leader in the professional landscape contractor equipment business ·         BOSS – a recent, and so far highly successful addition – gained entry into the professional snow and ice management business (snow plows, salt and sand spreaders) We proudly sold Wheel Horse/Toro Wheel Horse products for nearly 20 years until overall market demand began to fade. There were and still are many loyal Wheel Horse fans, but new sales dropped precipitously. Since that time, we exited the lawn and garden tractor segment in favor of consumer and professional zero-turn riding equipment. Since we no longer sell products related to the Wheel Horse acquisition, it, along with the vast majority of acquisitions we have made over the years, did not make the timeline.  It may seem harsh, but we could not publish every highlight or accomplishment on the timeline.  However, that does not mean we have forgotten Wheel Horse. As you can see in the image below, we have the last 300 Series Classic GT to roll off our assembly line on display in our vintage equipment collection at our corporate headquarters. Thank you for asking.

[dells68 7,494]

What?  I don't mean to offend anyone here, but that certainly doesn't make me want anything produced under Toro licensure!  I think our machines deserve their place in history as Cecil Pond made a HUGE contribution to home and garden care!  Kind of offensive if you ask me

[JPWH 5,308]

It's all about the profits not the product. 

[KC9KAS 4,741]

12 minutes ago, JPWH said:

It's all about the profits not the product. 

Sad but very true!

[dells68 7,494]

Kind of a reflection of the throw away world that we live in.  If it's not the current "in" thing, then it doesn't matter!  Sort of a revisionist view of the past - write it until it suits one's current needs or view, forget about the actual past.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

 Just hit the restart button. 

[SylvanLakeWH 24,146]

7 hours ago, dells68 said:

What?  I don't mean to offend anyone here, but that certainly doesn't make me want anything produced under Toro licensure!  I think our machines deserve their place in history as Cecil Pond made a HUGE contribution to home and garden care!  Kind of offensive if you ask me

 

1 hour ago, JPWH said:

It's all about the profits not the product. 

 

19 minutes ago, dells68 said:

Kind of a reflection of the throw away world that we live in.  If it's not the current "in" thing, then it doesn't matter!  Sort of a revisionist view of the past - write it until it suits one's current needs or view, forget about the actual past.

4 minutes ago, AMC RULES said:

 Just hit the restart button. 

 

1 hour ago, KC9KAS said:

Sad but very true!

 

Yea - My sentiments exactly...My reply to them was that a lot of folks would be interested in the complete history, including the cast-offs etc...Makes one wonder what's in store for Lawn Boy, X-Mark etc...

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

2 hours ago, JPWH said:

It's all about the profits not the product. 

 

8 hours ago, dells68 said:

What?  I don't mean to offend anyone here, but that certainly doesn't make me want anything produced under Toro licensure!  

 

Don't forget that those profits allow Toro to l stil stock parts for Wheel Horse tractors. They could have easily dismissed maintaining availability, if they felt like it. 

 

[953 nut 51,719]

6 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

profits allow Toro to l stil stock parts for Wheel Horse tractors

If Toro wasn't making a profit on the parts they sell you can be sure they would be discontinued too. We all know that the  line was built to last and that is contrary to today's planned obsolescence business model. 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

If Toro wasn't making a profit on the parts they sell you can be sure they would be discontinued too. We all know that the  line was built to last and that is contrary to today's planned obsolescence business model. 

 

  I didn't mean to imply that they don't make a profit on their parts business. A business should be able to charge to maintain their business.  Just that with profits they can afford to still stock parts for out-of-production equipment. Toro does recognize the contribution that Wheel Horse made other wise it would have disappeared a lot sooner. It is just as the Toro reply stated, that there essentially is no reason to tout a line that doesn't fit their current business plan. Toro has elected to not be in a market of throw away tractors. The throw away society has driven the way businesses are run today. 

 

Has anybody gone to the local Ford dealer for Edsel parts? How about getting parts for a Xerox Micro Fiche reader? How about tubes for a 1960's era television?  I'm beginning to have trouble finding parts for my 15-year old GMC.

[TDF5G 2,051]

Thanks for sharing the reply from TORO.  That was good of you to contact them regarding this matter.

 

It is sad, and I can't help but feel that Wheel Horse was slighted by Toro.  That explanation is mostly corporate mumbo jumbo IMO.  It's just a polite way of saying we only listed current brands in our company history even though  was a huge part of that for 20 years. 

 

I didn't know TORO sold golf irrigation equipment either. 

 

They claim that sales dropped for lawn & garden tractors and they exited that segment of the market in favor of zero turns.  But I see commercials on TV for the green & yellow and white & yellow lawn and garden tractors still being sold today.  I know former  owners, (relatives, friends, and neighbors) that now purchase new green ones and yellow & white ones too, only because  is no longer available to purchase new.  So there must be a market for lawn and garden tractors.  

That's my  and....

Edited May 3, 2016 by TDF5G

[rmaynard 14,898]

Some day in the future after Toro is acquired by a bigger conglomerate, maybe they will be dropped from "big conglomerate's" timeline as well.

 

Karma.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by rmaynard

[wrightorchid 261]

It's been discussed various times, about the demise of Wheel Horse under Toro ownership.  Just as older cars were all steel, new ones are not.  Much of what we call quality, was simply the way of making quality things to last.  The garden tractor market is dominated by mostly those that are designed to last only a few years, and cost about $1500 or less.  Most of the WH tractors were upwards of $3-4000 in the later years, much more than folks want to spend now.  I think if they had moved towards the SCUT market, they could have done great, as Kubota and others have done.  since most only mow their grass, the ZTR has taken over.  Many of the classic brands, Case, IH, Cub Cadet and many others are not the same companies they once were.

[wh500special 2,053]

I think we're overreacting a bit.  Dropping WH from their timeline isn't the same as forgetting about your middle child.  

 

The Toro reply was comprehensive, well-written, and realistic.  To survive and thrive Toro really needs to focus on their current customers. Their website reflects the current lineup and the things that give them the most recognition with contemporary consumers.  Unfortunately that evidently doesn't include our brand.  

 

Ask around your workplace, kids' school, or church how many people know what a Wheel Horse is.  Unless I'm living in a bubble, not many pedestrians have heard of them.  

 

Toro is guided by profits.  Just like everybody else.  Heck, I love my job but I can guarantee that I'd stop showing up everyday if they stopped paying me or removed the incentive to perform.  

 

I agree, it would be nice if Toro cited Wheel Horse on their timeline.  But given the current markets in which they compete it's not unforgivable that they don't.  

 

Few of us bought a new Wheel Horse when we had the opportunity.  Maybe the simplicity and durability of the product had a lot to do with that, but they certainly couldn't wait us out and keep producing them until we did. 

 

I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it.  Just offering my perspective on the current state of things.  Toro is just doing what the rest of us are doing.  

 

Your mileage may vary,

Steve

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I'm manager of a local hardware store and I can see some bothersome trends.  While the dollar has always been important today's price point pressure from imports has taken value to a new perspective.  Most all of us know that when Harbor Freight takes on Snap-On price-wise there is NO comparison, but while we might also say that when Snap-On takes on Harbor Freight performance, precision, durability and so on there is also no comparison but to the everyday consumer the difference in price just can't be understood or withstood!  Both brand wrenches will remove most nuts most of the time!  And for the average consumer that's all he needs!

 

Making a great product is one thing.  Making money is another and while corporations might prefer to make great products, they have to make money to exist.  Apparently it's hard to make both quality and profit...  Wheel Horse did both for a very long time and their products and legacy continues.  Thankfully Toro kept them going for as long as they could and still make money!

 

I guess it's mostly up to us to make Wheel Horse products and their legacy last as long as it can...

[rmaynard 14,898]

If only some manufacturer had the guts to try, I think there is a market for quality garden tractors, and consumers would pay whatever they cost. Take Apple for instance. They were on the brink of total collapse in the mid eighties, then innovations such as products starting with the letter "i" like iPad, iPod, iTunes, and last but not least iPhones came along. Now, there are those who will pay whatever Apple wants for the latest iPhone. Even though they are made in China, that doesn't matter.

 

It's all about marketing. That is where Toro went wrong with the Wheel Horse line.  

 

 

[meadowfield 2,545]

interesting comments...  we have the same issues here in the UK where some great cars and manufacturers have just disappeared never to return. We all have fond memories of them - however unreliable they were at the time.

 

Owning 13 wheel horses and a few other makes gives me an insight into the build quality and durability of them - there hasn't been one issue we couldn't fix!

 

Unfortunately whether we all like it or not, we have all contributed to the demise of Wheel Horse and many other great makes. We have just lost the ubiquitous Land Rover from the UK after 67 years of production. Yes they were bomb proof, but they were built in small numbers and very expensive to produce.... btw (I have one and love it)

 

Our never ending thirst to get a bargain and buy things cheaper drives these things. We have just had a vote here in the UK to be independent again (not sure if it makes the US, but huge news here)

 

Many dream of the old days and how great it was - truth is it wasn't. They blame Europe and China for our economy, yet 95% of us will buy the cheap Chinese ipod charge lead for £1, we buy 4 pints of milk for £0.80... We I was a kid it was £0.30 a pint delivered.... That was 30 years ago, we can see how farmers can't make a living here if we aren't really prepared to pay what something is really worth...

 

We can buy a Lamb joint from New Zealand for £8, the British one without the 5000 mile shipping is £10!!!

 

 

sorry to ramble on... I have to look at it as a whole and see it as progress - things move on no matter how nostalgic we are

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by meadowfield

[SylvanLakeWH 24,146]

UK's recent EU vote was big news here, but needed to compete in the "news" cycle with such important things as the Kardashians latest nonsense...

 

I will be very curious to see the impact of your vote on the whole world's economy, as you, your former EU friends and the world start adjusting to the new economic and political order...

 

All the best to you on the other side of "The Pond"...

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

3 hours ago, meadowfield said:

interesting comments...  we have the same issues here in the UK where some great cars and manufacturers have just disappeared never to return. We all have fond memories of them - however unreliable they were at the time.

 

Owning 13 wheel horses and a few other makes gives me an insight into the build quality and durability of them - there hasn't been one issue we could fix up!

 

Unfortunately whether we all like it or not, we have all contributed to the demise of Wheel Horse and many other great makes. We have just lost the ubiquitous Land Rover from the UK after 67 years of production. Yes they were bomb proof, but they were built in small numbers and very expensive to produce.... btw (I have one and love it)

 

Our never ending thirst to get a bargain and buy things cheaper drives these things. We have just had a vote here in the UK to be independent again (not sure if it makes the US, but huge news here)

 

Many dream of the old days and how great it was - truth is it wasn't. They blame Europe and China for our economy, yet 95% of us will buy the cheap Chinese ipod charge lead for £1, we buy 4 pints of milk for £0.80... We I was a kid it was £0.30 a pint delivered.... That was 30 years ago, we can see how farmers can't make a living here if we aren't really prepared to pay what something is really worth...

 

We can buy a Lamb joint from New Zealand for £8, the British one without the 5000 mile shipping is £10!!!

 

 

sorry to ramble on... I have to look at it as a whole and see it as progress - things move on no matter how nostalgic we are

 

I love watching Wheeler Dealers.  It comes on here in the US on the Velocity network.  I love seeing the older British cars, like the Rover PB8 (I think I got that right).  I also love seeing the British countryside.  But, as I watch that show, I can still see good old quality work being done by local shops there in the UK. I don't know how many there are, and how prosperous they are, but it seems quality isn't dead yet.

 

Truth be told, if Toro was still making Wheel Horses today, who here would buy one.  The cost of a new one versus a MTD or Craftsman would be quite high.  I don't think, as Toro claims, the demand for them went down, but they were becoming too expensive to buy and to produce. I know we all would claim we would buy a new one, but how many really will?  And why buy a new one, if your 1988 is still going strong?  That's another downside to quality.  It lasts, therefore there is no need to buy a new one.  So, the throw away, disposable tractors is what we have today so companies can make money.