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stevasaurus

SO, YOU WANT TO SAVE THAT WH 3 PIECE TRANNY

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Nice pics and editorial Thanks Steve for sharing.

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its nice that you take the time to teach us guys about these trannys.thanks its very helpful to see and hear how to rebuild these,my first 8 speed 25 years ago I didn't have a manual or computer,it was daunting but I was poor and to fix her and couldn't afford to take it to the dealer,so thanks you

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Well Steve you have your work cut out for you. This is very interesting, Ill be watching!

 Thanks so much for posting this

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It's cold out? Well I'm sure your kitchen has heat! :) This brings back memories. A frind of mine and myself tore a mini- bike Briggs apart in his kitchen while his mother was out shopping! I think we were about 10. This is back when gas smelled like gas and it didn't burn your skin so you could clean  parts with it! :)

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I think its great what you are doing. I have two of these transmissions one in the RJ and the other in a suburban both are working but i have a feeling one day i will be tearing one apart.

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Weird, I looked at this earlier and the topic was empty, even the first post



Cool, thanks for sharing. 

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The next step is to take the 3 differentials apart.  I picked the one in the middle to start, which is actually the one with a crack in the housing. 

2008_0228LANETRANNYS10001.thumb.JPG.8d67

 

This differential has the crack on one side.  In the 1st picture, there is not even a bronze bushing in the housing on one side. 

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The other side looks OK (as far as not being worn from side to side.), but this is where the crack is.

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You need to tap out the roll pin that holds the spider gear shafts (pinions).  Those push out the back and then the gear can come out.  It is the same on the other side. 

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You are now looking at the axle gears with their roll pins.  You need to tap out the roll pins...the axles go through the axle gears and are keyed (just like the axle hubs on the outer ends).  The axles pull out, with the wood ruff key, and then you can slide the axle gear into the differential chamber and pull it out.  :)

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After taping out the roll pins. Use a blade screw driver, or a 2' pry bar to go in between the axle gears to get them started to come out.  You can align the wood ruff key notches to tap the axle on to the other axle to help push it out. 

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Now this transmission is totally apart...except for popping out the bearings and seals.  the axles themselves look OK.  The one has a little groove where the seal might hit.  You can drill a 1/4" hole in the end of the axle a turn the axle around.  We will see later.  The plan is to take it all apart and clean it up first.  :)

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We have 2 bad pinions out of 4...a crack in the differential housing...a couple of small chips on 1 of the axle gear teeth, a worn area on 1 axle where the seal would hit, and the bronze bushings in the differential carriage (while worn evenly) are grooved pretty bad.

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Some how, I need to find a good quality set of roll punches...the ones I have are just junk.  :(

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And this is just the 1st differential out of the 3rd transmission.  :)  We will get them all apart and cleaned up, and then take inventory and see what we can do and what we have.  :)

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Good roll pin punches are hard to find. I've had Snap-ON all the way down to Harbor Freight. They all get bent up. You might try these from Starrett

 

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/Hammers1/punches/starrett-s565wb-drive-pin-punch-set?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=shp&utm_term=B679361&utm_campaign=Punches&infoParam.campaignId=WR

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I'm enjoying watching this thread Steve.

 

As far as punches go, my favorites right now are from Grace USA  http://www.graceusatools.com/  They make a great set of roll pin punches with the little doo-dah on the end to center the punch.  I have both the short and the regular set, start the thing moving with the short punch (less chance of bending the punch) and switch to the long ones when you need to.  Apparently lifetime guaranteed, but I've never bent or broken one.  Not expensive at all thru Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Grace-USA-Gunsmithing--Gunsmith-Accessories/dp/B00H407C1O/ref=sr_1_9?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1453163140&sr=1-9&keywords=roll+pin+punch+set

 

At work we need to remove tapered pins that have usually been in place for over 100 years.  My punches at work are mainly Snap-on, but I break or bend a 3/32 or 1/8 punch every week, so I need to keep 2 or 3 of those sizes in my box.  I think about $20 apiece but no problems exchanging them when the Snap-on guy calls on Wednesday mornings.  I keep meaning to get some Grace punches for work.

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Thanks for the punch info guys....I got the same set as Steve....:hide:

Edited by WHX6
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I have a set of the Dasco punches, looks just like yours.  They are NOT roll pin punches as they have a flat tip.  True roll pin punches have a bump on the tip that slips in to the hollow center of a roll pin.  I got a set of Mayhew punchespunch.JPG.0119b53946d0095d0b57662a968780 from McMaster

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Steve:  I logged in last night and this am to this Transmission Trilogy!  I am more impressed every posting you do on your knowledge about these RJ transmissions! I have sent a new Grace short roll pin set I bought for you as a set to do as Sorekiwi notes above.   I wish now I gallery_339_37_461494.jpggallery_339_37_230802.jpggallery_339_37_3051835.jpgcould find a piece to mate the cracked differential!  As you noted the third version of the RJ differential has some better features even though the one I had was cracked!

 

 

I told you the story that I traded an RJ front Wheel for the transmission in a box with one of my other Wheel Horse buddies.  The transmission center case with the welds was done by the original owner. He used his RJ with a garden plow every summer.  However he had a stump in his backyard where he had his garden  . The stump was low in the ground and he hit it hard and placed a crack in the case.  One crack that was welded and the transmission was placed back on the RJ with new internal parts including the newest version of the RJ differential.

 

Some years later he hit the tree. Stump again but this time cracked the transmission case in two more places. The case was welded but the differential had a bad crack in it as Steve's photos show us above.   The RJ owner then bought two other transmissions at an auction (not the two other ones I brought to Steve) and placed one on his RJ and kept the other as a spare.

 

 

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Thanks Lane...I was just going to order the short and the long set of those Grace roll pin punches.  They look like they are the sets to have.  I really like the fact that they have a short set.  A huge THANK YOU to sorekiwi (Mike) for that info.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

         pfrederi (Paul), you are correct...that blue handled set is just pin punches, not roll pin punches.  I do have another set that is a roll pin set, has the bump on the tip,..GRIP (GRAND RAPIDS INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTS).  The one in the shape of an "S" is from that set.  :)

        Lane, I would not go looking for parts yet.  Wait until I get them all apart and cleaned.  I'm thinking we can weld that housing, and so far, 2 of the three castings need some welding also.  :bow-blue:

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Going to take apart the other 2 differentials.  Being the Big Chicken that I am, I am going to do what I think will be the easy one first...from the transmission that did not have any oil in it.  :)  I am just going to post the pictures, since I took one apart above.

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She looks pretty, doesn't she??

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A little wear on the axle ends, but not too bad.  :)

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All the parts in this differential are good...E-Tank the housing a little and change out the bronze bearing, and good to go.

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Pay no attention to that puller above for the time being...I am going to try to use it on some of the bearings in these transmissions.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

           OK, now for the gunky, rusty differential.  Remember I said the axles did not feel quite right, like spider gears or axle gears.  They would turn in opposite directions, but it felt like there was a bad spot every once in a while.

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Surprisingly, as nasty as this looks, it came apart as easy as the one with no oil.  You just never know.

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You can see a few teeth missing out of the one axle gear.  bottom-center below

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The one spider gear (pinion), that is laying down, is missing some teeth also,   The rest of the spider gears and the other axle gear are OK.  The differential housing looks to be alright.2008_0229LANETRANNYS20012.thumb.JPG.49e1

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We will take a good look when these parts are cleaned and rust free,  Off the top...looks like total 3 bad spider gears out of 12...1 bad axle gear and 1 that is a maybe OK for riding around in the yard and at shows...one differential housing that may be OK with some welding.  That is not really too bad considering what they looked like in the wagon.  All the wood ruff keys and notches and key ways in the hubs, axle gears and axles are great.  That is a real +. 

     Waiting for my gunk tank and some nice weather to be able to continue.  Then comes someone to look at the welding.  :handgestures-thumbupright:

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Better get that kitchen cleaned up in time for dinner! :teasing-poke: Funny thing about punches. I have (had) :)a big honkin 3/8 dia  punch at work.I loaned it to our then 70 yr old lead mechanic. He returned it bent into a "U" :rolleyes: Of course this is the same guy who bent an aluminum pipe wrench handle 45 deg without putting a lever on the handle! :lol:

Edited by squonk
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Steve you could have the cracked differential turned smooth and have a sleeve pressed on it, That wood stop it from cracking more and give some extra support. Just a thought. -- Wayne

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Wayne...thanks.  That is just the kind of thinking I would like to see in this thread.  How can I say this??  I think we are getting to a point where we need to figure out how to fix what we have left...that wagon load of transmissions is getting hard to find, and you know... you never know what waits inside.  Would you still weld it and then have it turned??  Let me say this...I took a casting for some welding a few years ago...DClark now has that tranny...and as far as I know...it is still OK.  This guy was at a radiator shop and told me that this older cast iron is excellent stuff and, unlike the newer cast, is not hard to weld and it holds.  :)  All of the casting things that are broke here is why I titled the thread like I did.  Hardest part might be finding the right welder.  The thing is, if these castings can be fixed...the price of RJ's and Suburbans will come down.    :handgestures-thumbupright:           :ROTF:

    This is not just about welding.  Can we fix teeth on gears??  Can we repair pitting on gears??  Can we do it cost effective??  I would think most if not all members on Red Square are not really looking to fix an RJ 58/59 or Suburban to go out in the field all day, but pulling a cart or wagon for hayrides...driving around at shows...and maybe even mowing a lawn like mine (you could cut it with a pair of scissors)...getting around the "Cap Seal" for the axles.  This is what this thread is about.

      I just kind of refuse to accept getting 3 transmissions like this, and it is going to be tough to get 1 transmission back out of those 3.  I already know I can make 2...I am looking to make 3.  :)

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so can the gears still be found,do you have a stash of parts to get all 3 trannys going?just curious

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Steve I know that you can get gear blanks at places like Kaman. If you get the gear blank you can turn it down on the out side or bore it out to fit your shaft. Just have to have the right tool for the job.

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Craig I think so . The one in Elmira NY is called Kaman bearing. --Wayne

 

Steve you could have someone silver solder the sleeve on.

Edited by woodchuckfarmer
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10 hours ago, woodchuckfarmer said:

Craig I think so . The one in Elmira NY is called Kaman bearing. --Wayne

 

Steve you could have someone silver solder the sleeve on.

 

maybe even braze it

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