K241S (46863) Rebuild, Special Tools

[MGain 9]

Hi.  I am new to these forums and really happy I found you all!

I bought a house that came with an old (then still running) Wheel Horse lawn mower tractor.  Unfortunately my father managed to destroy the engine by not looking after the oil level.  It appears that the friction between connecting rod and crankshaft was too much and the end result was a chewed up rod and damaged piston.

After an uninformed and ultimately failed attempt to replace piston and rod with cheap eBay parts I now want to do this right, and restore the engine from the ground up.

I am curious how those of you that have done this handled the special tools required.  In order to get the crankshaft and valves out I understand some are required.  I found old service manuals online that tell me which.  Did you guys but then specifically for the job, rent them, or improvised?  I'd hate to lay out a few hundred dollars to buy single use tools.

I have the engine apart, and now want to get all parts off it so it can be sent on to a machine shop.  So crankshaft and valves is what I am concerned about now.

Thanks for the insight, looking forward to getting the little tractor running again.

[JAinVA 4,619]

This subject is pretty much answered in a previous post about rod knocking.Just search in the engine forum .Luck,JAinVA

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I was in the same boat as you. Found a small engine place to do the rebuild for me for less than I could have purchased all the tools for.

If you plan on doing a bunch of engines, just find a place that will rebuild it for you. I had a Kohler single rebuilt for just over $400 last year (aftermarket) parts, labor and machining all included. Kohler parts are CRAZY expensive, and at this point I dont think the quality is any better than aftermarket you find on ebay.

[pacer 3,159]

As gaffer say, best solution (if possible!) is to have the work done. When you find a place confirm with them just how you will receive the engine back, ideally it will be in "short block" configuration - crankshaft back in & piston/rod & and valves installed. This will leave the owner to install the head, flywheel, manifolds & carb and exhaust etc etc. I havent found anyone local to do small engine boring and crank grinding - luckily, in the half dozen Ive done so far none needed it.

Doing re-assembly your self you would need at minimum - ring compressor, cylinder hone, torque wrench, feeler guages & valve spring compressor. Cost on these items would vary depending on where bought - guessing? probably in the 250-350$ range? You also need a pretty good comfort level in doing this kind of this job.

[MGain 9]

Thanks folks.  I did get a quote back from one small engine repair shop by me.... upwards of $1,000 and with a timing estimate that would give me the engine back in a few months only.  It's good to hear this can be done much cheaper.  That estimate was the reason I decided to roll up my sleeves and do the work myself.

I will dig around a bit more in my area then, after hearing this can't be this expensive.

This forum is a great resource, but I haven't quite figured out the search and use of tags yet.  Apologies!

But thanks for the tips!

edit: Should I use this thread to keep you guys posted on progress?

Edited July 27, 2015 by MGain

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Don't worry about tags, they aren't widely used yet and are not required. Yes, please do keep us updated in this thread!

Also, check with the shops what it would cost if you brought them all the parts for the rebuild. (Then buy the stens parts from ebay). The shop I used could only get Kohler parts (and the price was looking just like what you posted), but then when I brought them the parts it dropped down to like $300 something. (plus $130 or so of parts)

Just a bunch of fellas that didnt know how to (or care to) use ebay and didnt have another source for stens.

[can whlvr 991]

I have rebuilt a few kohler singles and a few horizontal Hondas too,i bought all the specialty tools but I found that my local rental shop rented all of these tools other than the torque wrench which any home mechanic can use sometime or another,this is not a home depot but a professional style rental shop,up here the shops want your first born and you need a second mortgage too afford a rebuilt kohler,I had one quote of 1800,00 for a 12 hp with kohler parts,so I do it myself other than the machining

[MGain 9]

Found another local shop that rebuilds these.  Going to stop by there on the weekend to figure out the cost.  Update coming.  As far as a tool rental shop, I'll take a look for those as well.  That sounds like a really good route, if there is one here.

[JAinVA 4,619]

Rebuilding an engine can be cost effective if you don't have to pay for a lot for machining and part replacement.I just did a 12 horse Kohler for the cost of after market rings,
(no cylinder wear, good crank and rod),gaskets and new bearings.Total cost was less than $100.00.Fifty hours on rebuild so far and it runs well.Bought a real low hour 16 horse Kohler for $350.00 locally.If you don't have to have a running machine right now,and shop around you can save a lot of money.In some ways I would rather buy a used
tractor that runs well rather than spend $500.00 or more on a rebuild.JMHO,Luck,JAinVA

[Bach-Ed 164]

There are other possibilities.  If you are good at making things work. a new engine.  I had a unit with a K181 (the size one size smaller than a K241) who's engine died.  I bought, on sale, a CH2700, the modern equivalent Kohler for $350 on sale.  I did have to do some adapting to make it work.  Harbor Freight often has a Chinese copy for a lot less.  I'm sure the Kohler will outlive me I'm not sure about the HF one.   But for the cost of a good rebuilt, I have a new engine with warranty.  It's not a pure tractor as a restoration and many will argue a K241 is a better engine but this is an option for some.  You will find a lot of earlier threads about engine swaps.

[MGain 9]

There are other possibilities.  If you are good at making things work. a new engine.  I had a unit with a K181 (the size one size smaller than a K241) who's engine died.  I bought, on sale, a CH2700, the modern equivalent Kohler for $350 on sale.  I did have to do some adapting to make it work.  Harbor Freight often has a Chinese copy for a lot less.  I'm sure the Kohler will outlive me I'm not sure about the HF one.   But for the cost of a good rebuilt, I have a new engine with warranty.  It's not a pure tractor as a restoration and many will argue a K241 is a better engine but this is an option for some.  You will find a lot of earlier threads about engine swaps.

I took a close look at the Diesel engine option.  I would love to swap out for that (but then restore the engine slowly over time as a hobby.  But I didn't want to cut into the hood and make other, permanent, modifications.  There is also a very good chance I need to use the tractor during the winter.  And it gets into the -20's here at times.  I read that it becomes a bit tough to start in the cold.

I just dropped off the short block at a local machine shop.  The place is amazing, like a toyground for gear heads!  Scruffy dude in an old shop with mills and other super heavy duty machining equipment.  It's a a place where engine blocks, things like a random bucket filled with Pistons that have had the skirts broken off, cylinder heads, and all kinds of random engine related parts off all sizes are just everywhere.  There was a massive 2 cylinder crankshaft standing on it's side.  About 3 feet tall and what must have been a three to four inch thick shaft (heh).

He'll get the needed parts and get it all sorted out.  He said the last engine he did of this kind ran about $400 in labor and like $200 in parts.  He asked if I wanted to bring my own parts or have him order original or generic.  Since I did not want to reuse my $80 eBay rebuild kit parts, I asked him to take care of getting them.  He recommended generic due to the price difference, and no difference in quality.  Seemed like a good dude, seems like it is in good hands.

I will need to drop off the cylinder head, he said it looks like it is warped by the black "tinted" metal on the block (top of the cylinder part) and a $300 deposit for the parts he is ordering.

I'm excited!  Will keep you posted.

[MGain 9]

Update: it lives!

 

It took a while to get the engine back.  I was not in a hurry so I did not follow up probably as early as I could have.  I have had it back for a few weeks now and got life signs out of it today.  It now idles without trouble but as soon as I give it some gas the engine sputters and shakes.  Could this have something to do with the gap width of the breaker points?  The other thought is something with the carburetor, but I haven't quite done enough Google research to be able to decipher these symptoms.

 

I will update here as soon as I figure it out.

[oldredrider 2,547]

Try setting the points at .019. If that doesn't improve things, a carb adjustment is in order. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by oldredrider

[MGain 9]

Allrghty, we're back in action!

 

I ended up getting carried away fixing some wiring sins of the past.  And after replacing the carburator, coil, and soon to be relay for the starter circuit, the little tractor runs like new.  The real turn came after I replaced the coil, fixed all the sputtering and irregular spark problems.

 

I have, for now, bypassed the relay completely.  Figured it was bad when there is 12 volt going into it and only 3 coming out.  Today I did the first round of mowing on the tractor.  Runs just like it used to.

 

Thanks for the advice folks.  And a mighty nice forum you have here.  The owner and maintenance manuals are invaluable.  They were key for me figuring out / learning about my little project.

Edited April 25, 2016 by MGain
"coil" not "cool"

[can whlvr 991]

good to hear

[jay bee 817]

You gotta love a happy ending.

 

Jim