Why are GT's fading away?

[horsejunkie77 1]

It seems as if the crop of new garden tractors gets thinner by the year. I believe (I could be wrong here) that JD, Cub, Craftsman and maybe Troy Bilt are the only holdouts left. What happened? Is it because people would rather have separate machines instead of attaching implements? It's a shame in my opinion.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

which manufacturers have you seen disappear?

[trowel 4]

All becoming owned by one unity over time, just like Sears and Roebuck and Montgomery Wards in the day.

[baerpath 517]

Simplicity still makes a decent GT. Nothing like the old ones but still decent. sub compacts and compacts are what hurt the GT market

[squonk 38,936]

Plus everyone wants zero turns. I picked up a 414 2 yrs ago because the guy got a new Grasshopper. His yard was like a tenth of an acre! 

[KC9KAS 4,741]

Also less folks making gardens these days so less of a market for GT's

[horsejunkie77 1]

which manufacturers have you seen disappear?

Ford/New Holland, Massey, Toro, WH obviously and I'm not so sure Husqvarna still makes one. Not positive on that.

Plus everyone wants zero turns. I picked up a 414 2 yrs ago because the guy got a new Grasshopper. His yard was like a tenth of an acre!

Yes!!! I've seen the exact same thing around here. A guy had a huge Dixie Chopper and his yard required maybe a $350 push mower. Weird.

[Navig8r 132]

It seems to me that fewer and fewer people can/want to do anything themselves..... car repair and maintenance, home repairs, construction, or even simple yard work..... Let alone those HORRIBLE tasks like snow removal, or gardening

With cheap homeowner ZTRs at the price of a tractor, I think those with lawns to mow, but no other tasks to complete, are looking that way.  Those with serious tasks to do are probably looking at the SCUT/CUT options.

Those of us that can actually get our hands dirty and do for ourselves are pretty rare anymore, it seems.

My son just turned 1, and I hope that as he gets older, he enjoys sharing the tasks I enjoy, including maintaining and running my grandfather's old WH and Gilson snowblower...... And whatever else I can add to the garage

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

It seems to me that fewer and fewer people can/want to do anything themselves..... car repair and maintenance, home repairs, construction, or even simple yard work..... Let alone those HORRIBLE tasks like snow removal, or gardening

With cheap homeowner ZTRs at the price of a tractor, I think those with lawns to mow, but no other tasks to complete, are looking that way.  Those with serious tasks to do are probably looking at the SCUT/CUT options.

Those of us that can actually get our hands dirty and do for ourselves are pretty rare anymore, it seems.

My son just turned 1, and I hope that as he gets older, he enjoys sharing the tasks I enjoy, including maintaining and running my grandfather's old WH and Gilson snowblower...... And whatever else I can add to the garage

Its the same here in North Carolina...................... sad

[baerpath 517]

It seems to me that fewer and fewer people can/want to do anything themselves..... car repair and maintenance, home repairs, construction, or even simple yard work..... Let alone those HORRIBLE tasks like snow removal, or gardening

With cheap homeowner ZTRs at the price of a tractor, I think those with lawns to mow, but no other tasks to complete, are looking that way.  Those with serious tasks to do are probably looking at the SCUT/CUT options.

Those of us that can actually get our hands dirty and do for ourselves are pretty rare anymore, it seems.

My son just turned 1, and I hope that as he gets older, he enjoys sharing the tasks I enjoy, including maintaining and running my grandfather's old WH and Gilson snowblower...... And whatever else I can add to the garage

I went and looked at a new truck today, so much crap on them no way I could work on it. Ya need to be a computer tech to work on them. what a $62,000 piece of crap

[muz123 1,191]

Simplicity still makes a garden tractor but its 7,000 dollars.

[dcrage 621]

Saw a good 'overview' article on the state of garden/lawn tractors 5 years ago or there abouts. At that time there were 3 'entries' making 90+% of the tractors sold. Including several of the afore mentioned ones (Toro, Cub, Troy Bilt etc). Here goes to the best of my memory (please correct my mistakes).

1) MTD/White or whatever they are called now was one. Seems like they actually own the Cub Cadet line. If that is correct it shows that the generic manufacturers can build high quality stuff when asked to.

2) Briggs and Stratton plus whoever else owns them (Electolux?)

3) And I think the third one was Husqvarna

Sears has contracted forever with 3rd parties. I guess back in their hey days Roper(?) built those good garden tractors for them. Troy Bilt doesn't build their own anymore (Did they really have their own factory at one time? I assume it was East Coast located.) As far as that goes doesn't JD contract the models they sell in the big box stores. They all look similar to me.

So it all comes back to $s. It was more lucrative to sell a generic lawn tractor (that is where the $s are) and it is sure less expensive/risky to let someone else design and build the tractor. So you end up with just a few players

PS. Did Snapper get out of the tractor business. Seems like they st.ayed in for a long time.

Edited May 4, 2015 by dcrage

[horsejunkie77 1]

Getting sidetracked from the topic here, and I'm sure this is widely debated, but I can't tell the difference in a JD 110 at a big box and the one at an independent dealer. I guess I'm an old schooler. For example, I don't like plastic hoods. Is it for cost? Is it to save gas? Not sure I care much about saving gas on a GT or LT lol.

[squonk 38,936]

It's to sell more hoods! The're always busted. I found a nice JD hood in a pick your own part yard once. Put it on CL and the phone was ringing off the hook! 

[tunahead72 2,341]

... Troy Bilt doesn't build their own anymore (Did they really have their own factory at one time? I assume it was East Coast located.) ...

 

Yes, actually in Troy NY if I remember correctly.  I'm only really familiar with their tillers (which were excellent), and their owner's manuals were a sight to behold, the most comprehensive and detailed things you'd ever want to see.  And if you called to ask a question, they would let you speak with someone who actually knew what the f*** they were talking about.

 

They really just don't make (or support) them like that any more.

 

Sorry, mini-rant over.

[tunahead72 2,341]

Getting sidetracked from the topic here, and I'm sure this is widely debated, but I can't tell the difference in a JD 110 at a big box and the one at an independent dealer...

 

I believe they're exactly the same tractor, and they're not necessarily less expensive at the big box stores.

 

I don't remember if I've told this story here before...

 

Several years ago, the engine on my 310-8 was going bad, smoking, losing power, leaking and burning oil, etc.  Money was tight, and I actually considered replacing my beloved Wheel Horse with a cheap Deere or Cub Cadet just to get by for a while.  My local Deere dealer had a good selection of tractors, ranging from inexpensive to very expensive.  Lowe's and Home Depot carried the inexpensive models, at exactly the same prices the Deere dealer was asking.  And then one day I overheard a Lowe's salesman talking to another customer, and he actually said that one of the great things about buying a Deere product was that you could get parts and service at any Deere dealer.  And I thought, if the price is exactly the same at an authorized dealer, and Lowe's doesn't generally carry parts, and they certainly don't service tractors, then why in the world would I buy a Deere tractor from them???

 

I kept my 310-8, had the engine rebuilt and found RedSquare all about the same time.  I like the way things turned out.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

 

And I thought, if the price is exactly the same at an authorized dealer, and Lowe's doesn't generally carry parts, and they certainly don't service tractors, then why in the world would I buy a Deere tractor from them???

 

 

My dad bought a big box Deere L110 back in 2003. He passed away shortly after, leaving me the tractor with less than 20 hrs on the clock.

 

Fast forward 12 years. Have I ever worried about parts?

 

Nope.

 

Why?

 

Other than blades, NOT A SINGLE PART HAS FAILED ON THE TRACTOR, DECK, OR BAGGER.

 

I cut 2+ acres, once or twice a week.

[dcrage 621]

So does John Deere manufacture L110s?? -- Those "Sabre" models you would see at WalMart(?) were surely built by someone else

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Production: Manufacturer: John Deere Factory: Horicon, Wisconsin, USA   John Deere L110 Engine:    Kohler 490cc 1-cyl gasoline full engine details ...

[dcrage 621]

Chuck,

 

You have obviously had good results with that John Deer lawn tractor -- Do you find the "build quality" to be comparable to what we got when we purchase our Wheel Horses??

 

I say good for John Deere for producing their own consumer line

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

Saw a good 'overview' article on the state of garden/lawn tractors 5 years ago or there abouts. At that time there were 3 'entries' making 90+% of the tractors sold. Including several of the afore mentioned ones (Toro, Cub, Troy Bilt etc). Here goes to the best of my memory (please correct my mistakes).

1) MTD/White or whatever they are called now was one. Seems like they actually own the Cub Cadet line. If that is correct it shows that the generic manufacturers can build high quality stuff when asked to.

2) Briggs and Stratton plus whoever else owns them (Electolux?)

3) And I think the third one was Husqvarna

Sears has contracted forever with 3rd parties. I guess back in their hey days Roper(?) built those good garden tractors for them. Troy Bilt doesn't build their own anymore (Did they really have their own factory at one time? I assume it was East Coast located.) As far as that goes doesn't JD contract the models they sell in the big box stores. They all look similar to me.

So it all comes back to $s. It was more lucrative to sell a generic lawn tractor (that is where the $s are) and it is sure less expensive/risky to let someone else design and build the tractor. So you end up with just a few players

PS. Did Snapper get out of the tractor business. Seems like they st.ayed in for a long time.

 

Briggs owns Simplicity, who bought Snapper.  The new Snappers are rebadged Simplicitys.

 

Cub Cadet has been owned by MTD since 1981.  MTD also owns Bolens and Troy Bilt.

 

Most Craftsman and all Husqevarnas are made by AYP (American Yard Products).

 

John Deere makes all of it's tractors, including the D-series which are sold at Home Depot and Lowes as well as JD dealers.  John Deere still makes garden tractors, though their SCUTs are just a few dollars more than the X700 series.

 

Ingersoll, which bought out the Case garden tractor line, went bankrupt a few years ago, but was rescued by Eastman Industries who have been making commercial walk behinds for years.  The new Ingersolls retain the Case/Ingersoll build and are still garden tractors.

[Ken B 3,116]

Ya know what I think? I think the new shade of yellow on the new line of Cub Cadets is Ugly! Oh, and the redesign of the Cub Cadet's hood is even uglier! Once upon a time I was into Cub Cadets and I had a garage full of Cubs that I restored. On one hand I'm almost happy that you can't buy a new Wheel Horse because they would probably be just as ugly and cheesy as the new Cubs... One of my older brothers has a new John Deere that he purchased at the dealer, I can't recall what model it is?  Anyway, it is an upper end model and in between a lawn and garden tractor.. It is pretty nice and it is built well, and it ain't even ugly.. My brother has got the cash, he wants the best for his hard earned dough. He always does his research and makes sure he isn't just buying something because of its name. He went to every dealer that sells new tractors locally, Cub, Simplicity, Huskvarna,(maybe a few others) and his last stop was at the Deere dealer. After all of his research it came down to Simplicity and Deere. It was the helpful, friendly and not pushy Deere dealer at West End Power that helped make his decision...

[fireman 1,021]

Ya know what I think? I think the new shade of yellow on the new line of Cub Cadets is Ugly! Oh, and the redesign of the Cub Cadet's hood is even uglier! Once upon a time I was into Cub Cadets and I had a garage full of Cubs that I restored. On one hand I'm almost happy that you can't buy a new Wheel Horse because they would probably be just as ugly and cheesy as the new Cubs... One of my older brothers has a new John Deere that he purchased at the dealer, I can't recall what model it is?  Anyway, it is an upper end model and in between a lawn and garden tractor.. It is pretty nice and it is built well, and it ain't even ugly.. My brother has got the cash, he wants the best for his hard earned dough. He always does his research and makes sure he isn't just buying something because of its name. He went to every dealer that sells new tractors locally, Cub, Simplicity, Huskvarna,(maybe a few others) and his last stop was at the Deere dealer. After all of his research it came down to Simplicity and Deere. It was the helpful, friendly and not pushy Deere dealer at West End Power that helped make his decision...

 

 

Your spot on Ken! Just like new trucks today. I was always a Chevy guy and after 1987 when they started rounding the noses I wasn't impressed. If they would make a Chevy Stepside the same body style as they did in 86' I'd go out and by one tomorrow! 

 

As far as West-End Power, they are great to deal with and have been a family owned business since 1951. I know that means a lot to me. Like you said, no pressure sales. I think it's that way because their product really sells itself. I like Wheel Horses like everyone else here but the bottom line is John Deere Tractors are here to stay and they are a very reliable and well built machine.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Chuck,

 

You have obviously had good results with that John Deer lawn tractor -- Do you find the "build quality" to be comparable to what we got when we purchase our Wheel Horses??

 

I say good for John Deere for producing their own consumer line

I can't honestly say I have scrutinized the "build quality" as the tractor has had zero failures. The front axle is cast iron, tires are Carlisle, fuel line Goodyear, engine Kohler - all familiar names without any penny pinching seen. All maintenance points like grease fittings are readily accessible.The only items I will have to address are lifting paint around the foot pad area and fraying of the seams at the top of the vac collection bags.

 

Other than that, just 2x a year oil changes and the occasional thorn in the tire, but the build quality has been sufficient to enable what I consider above average homeowner use without experiencing any setbacks. Every time I go to start the thing - it does. When I engage the PTO - it does and provides a quality of cut that surpasses anything I have every used before. Just wish the dang thing had a mower deck larger than the 42" on there now!

 

So figuring purchase price divided by 12 years usage - that equates to about $2 a week for reliable turnkey performance. I'm not a Deere fanboy or a WH detractor but I sincerely cannot understand the "big box" bashing that goes on. It's great to have the talent to troubleshoot a broken wire and tackweld a broken joint on demand for a 40 year old garden tractor, but to give someone with modest lawn care needs the impression they are "throwing your money away - you will be sorry" - nah ! 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Save Old Iron

[kaiser 100]

my step grand dad owns a deere dealership. when I called him on the 100 series he told me he won't stock them or sell them. smallest he'll sell are the 300's.

 

believe it or not it was him who told me to look at older deere's, wheelhorses, and cub cadets.  he doesn't like the newer 100's at all.