Planning/Hoping to add to the herd

[PaulC 341]

After pretty easily clearing it with the wife  (I was shocked) im pretty sure im going to up my herd to 5 this weekend, this would be by far my biggest haul!! She did quickly tell me that I will have to at least slim it down by 1 shortly after if I do make this deal. Bye bye parts tractor

 

Found on CL (2) 417-A's with a 48" deck, a 42" rd deck, and a snow plow. The stuff really isn't in that great of shape and there are a lot of unknowns but the price is right and im hoping I can save them. The guy got the whole package from an older gent that broke down and bought a big box store tractor, he was told the horses were his and his brothers and thinks they may have had them since new. He told me the tractor with the 48" deck started and seem to run good he turned the deck on which he said was super quiet and drove it around a little and parked it in the barn. The other tractor turns over good but wouldn't start and he said he noticed that machine has 3000 hours on the clock .

 

I currently have 2 312 hydros which are great tractors and a 312-8 parts tractor and ive always thought I want more power. I don't want to get into onans considering all the stuff ive read about and my dream tractor a 420LSE will probably never come up so these 417's really intrigue me. One of my 312's is an 1987 and I really like the older wheel horse style when I compare it to my 1990 when toro started to take over, I still do love that machine though.

 

So my thought is to take the chance and grab this package because the attachments alone are worth it to me, then if I end up with a nice 417-A even if its a combo of the two or better yet 2 417-A's ill be in real good shape. I would plan to fix it or maybe even them up real nice like I did to my 1990 312.

 

The tractors are listed as 1985's but they both have louvered hoods so I think they would be 86's? I hope they have the KT17 series 2's but I have a really flat yard so I would think even the series 1 would be fine for me? I really like the fact that these seem to be more rare of a tractor too considering they were only produced 2 years.

 

Please fellow  nuts tell me what you think about this proposition and more so the 417-A

 

Thanks a lot Paul

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I really like the 417 and 418's. Never owned one though, they don't come up around here a lot and when they do $$$. (There's a 418-8 listed near me with only a mower deck for $1450)

 

I went with a 520 because even though they have issues (which seem to be solvable), it seems as though replacement engines are far more prevalent.

 

If you have the time and $$$ to completely rebuild a KT17-II or an M18 I would think that would be the best bet of all the twins as it should last forever!

 

Oh and I am PRETTY sure (though not certain) that they switched to the series 2 when they went to the 417 from the C-175. Per Kohler: If they have a spec number of 24300 or higher then its series two.

Edited April 24, 2015 by bmsgaffer

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I have confirmed this suspicion via the model lists:

 

Last model of C-175:

11-17KE01 1984 C Series Garden Tractor C-175 Twin Automatic Kohler KT17S-24223 17 Eaton 1100-032

 

First model of 417:

31-17K801 1985 417-8 Garden Tractor 8 Speed Kohler KT17QS-24340

[PaulC 341]

Thanks for that info Brandon!! I thought through the research ive done some of the earlier 1985 417's came with the series 1 but im happy to hear that's not the case. Whoa that's pretty good money hopefully its in really nice shape!

 

I work with a guy who has a 520 and he loves it. I inquired about saving one once but it didn't work out. I wouldn't rule one out and I know the people who have them in good running order say you cant beat them but when were in the market of saving these older tractors it becomes a crap shoot on what kind of previous maintenance has been done. That applies to them all but seems more important with the onans.

 

I am hoping I don't need to worry about any motor rebuilds if I get them but I guess time will tell. At least I have other machines to use while I hopefully fix the 417's up.

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

Sounds like you are on to soomething good. The 417's are a great tractor. Good luck!

[PaulC 341]

Well I just got back from a 5 hour round trip!! Got the whole package for 500 bucks!! One tractor is pretty rough with over 3000 hours on the meter but the other is much better with just over 800 hours. The rd deck is rusty but really solid and seems to have everything in working order. The 48 has 2 holes in typical spot but other then that it's good. Plow is ok but the blade is kinda bent somehow? Also got a set of tire chains.

Looking forward to start tinkering to see what I really got. I'm guessing I should have no problem getting 1 good 417 that I'll hopefully refurbish to a really nice machine. I really really like the look and style of these 417's. I intended to pick up a plow before next winter anyway and it never hurts to have extra decks. As u could imagine I'm really happy with this haul. Got a few pics of the loaded trailer and will add more as I go.

[muz123 1,182]

3000 hours!!!! thats alot!!! Those kholers go for ever! Nice find though 

Edited April 26, 2015 by muz123

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,441]

I'll bet you that the key was left "on" in the tractor with 3000 hours.

Nice score for short money!

Mike........

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

Nice looking 417-A's.I'd get them both running.You can never have too many WH's.Ask me how I know!! Have fun with your new toys.

[slovinski 42]

Mega WH score.  cool GP aero coupe in background

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

That's a lot of wheel horse iron for 500 bucks. Great score........Wayne

[papaglide 541]

Paul, you will love those tractors. I have a 417 and it is an awesome tractor. The KT sounds awesome! It's kind of like a growl. You got yourself a sweet deal there!

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

I'll bet you that the key was left "on" in the tractor with 3000 hours.

Nice score for short money!

Mike..

Hopefully this is the case. Don't be surprised though to find you have to replace the coil, points and condenser if this is what happened.

[PaulC 341]

I got everything unloaded and power washed amazing what a difference it made. The tractor with 850 hours on it is a great candidate to be fixed up. All the sheet metal is straight and the engine cleaned up awesome. I got it to start 3 times but it wouldn't stay running.

The other machine does not appear to have 3130 hrs on it like the meter shows but it is a bit rougher. I can't wait to dig into them deeper and see what I really got. Here are some more pics I took today.

[PaulC 341]

Here are the after power washing pics.

All lined up in the garage but boy am I running myself out of space.

[Ken B 3,116]

I'll bet you that the key was left "on" in the tractor with 3000 hours.

Nice score for short money!

Mike........

I'm betting the same thing as well!

 

You did real well on that Deal! Can't beat a 417.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ken B

[PaulC 341]

Im guessing the key left on scenario too but I would have to think it would have happened multiple times to add up to those kind of hours? I wonder how long the meter would run even on a new fresh battery before killing it?

 

A lot of 417 owners commenting on this which Im not surprised about. From the research I did before going to pick these up ive saw a lot of threads either started or commented on by you guys and don't think I read a single negative about these 417's.

 

I see that these motors have points and a condenser which im going to have to familiarize myself with, ive only messed with my 12hp magnums up until now. I already downloaded all the manuals so I got some reading and learning to do.

 

Thanks for all the comments and encouragement so far guys.....got to love Redsquare!

[pacer 3,159]

Very nice horses!! and I do love the sound of those twin Kohlers!

 

A comment about leaving switch on and building hours on the meter --- On an engine with points if key is left on not running and the points are closed - and the chances are high they will be - the coil will quickly start to heat and soon fail, even been known to burst/explode. Likely the meter would still run but the battery would die pretty quickly with having a dead short. So while some hours may accumulate its not likely to be too many - plus the fact that the tractor wont run to good  

 

I get the impression that those twin wire coils (at least the KT engines) seem to fail pretty easily. I got one of my C-175's because of a bad coil and the guy didnt know what was wrong.

 

Right now I am waiting on the brown truck to bring me a coil for a K241 - I was cutting some grass and shortly it died and would not start (long way from the shop of course!) In the confusion of going getting another tractor and towing it back to the shop the key was left on. Next day I'm gonna check out what the problem was (float stuck) but the battery was stone dead, charge the battery and it wont even think about starting, check for spark and none, notice the coil looks odd, kinda pooched out and on looking closely oil is pooled around the rim... well, thats a giveaway for the problem! so the battery was dead within a pretty short time.

Edited April 27, 2015 by pacer

[PaulC 341]

Very nice horses!! and I do love the sound of those twin Kohlers!

 

A comment about leaving switch on and building hours on the meter --- On an engine with points if key is left on not running and the points are closed - and the chances are high they will be - the coil will quickly start to heat and soon fail, even been known to burst/explode. Likely the meter would still run but the battery would die pretty quickly with having a dead short. So while some hours may accumulate its not likely to be too many - plus the fact that the tractor wont run to good

 

I get the impression that those twin wire coils (at least the KT engines) seem to fail pretty easily. I got one of my C-175's because of a bad coil and the guy didnt know what was wrong.

 

Right now I am waiting on the brown truck to bring me a coil for a K241 - I was cutting some grass and shortly it died and would not start (long way from the shop of course!) In the confusion of going getting another tractor and towing it back to the shop the key was left on. Next day I'm gonna check out what the problem was (float stuck) but the battery was stone dead, charge the battery and it wont even think about starting, check for spark and none, notice the coil looks odd, kinda pooched out and on looking closely oil is pooled around the rim... well, thats a giveaway for the problem! so the battery was dead within a pretty short time.

 

nice info here pacer thanks a bunch!   If I end up not having any spark ill know right where to look

[PaulC 341]

https://vimeo.com/126500257

Got the lower hour machine operational!!! Runs pretty good for sitting so long don't think it really smoked at all. I do like this KT17 so far nice and smooth and quieter then I anticipated. Hydro feels good too I drove it around the yard a bit. A bit faster then what im used to. Gonna need a lot of work cleaning adjusting and fixing everything but I'm up for that task and I think it'll really make a great machine in the end.

The higher hour tractor I got to turn over and seems to have compression and sounds good rolling over but like suspected it doesn't have spark so couldn't get it running.

Between the two I think I'll have close to all the parts I'll need but we'll see where it goes as I get into them. Don't want to have the other as just a parts machine but don't want to dump a lot into both of them either. If I can get the higher hour machine running and driving and all seems good I'll have to make the call then.

The more time I get with this stuff the happier I am about the trip and purchase. And I never understood the hype about the bigger front tires but I think I get it now. They seem to just fit and look so much better from every angle. Now that I say that maybe I will part the high hour one and put the bigger wheels and tires on my 312? Decisions decisions!!

[elliot ness 1,916]

Great score. I too like the Kohler twins.   :bow-blue:      

[PaulC 341]

Small update. Havent been able to put to much time in on the new horses but got all the tins off of the lower hour tractor and yesterday got to replacing the fuel lines added a filter and cleaned the carb. After figuring out I had two wires hooked up wrong finally got spark back and let me tell you she fired right up and after adjusting the carb the thing runs amazing!!   No smoke or hesitation at all.   I definitely love the sound of this KT17 twin. Just talked to my dad about possibly having the tins powder coated. Sorry don't have any new pics but will get some more once I get more time to start on the cleanup and paint.

 

I proved to myself about racking up hours by leaving the key on. We have all speculated the machine with over 3000 hrs was a victim of that and the last time I messed with it I actually left the key on myself. Now these machines have been sitting so neither battery was strong and all I got that one to do was crank over with my jump box. Me leaving the key on with a very low battery racked up another 40 hrs on it

 

Quick question I replaced the ignition switch also because it wouldn't crank with the old and there was a jumper wire from the solenoid to the battery. Once I got everything connected I tried to crank her over and still had nothing. Disconnected that lead put the jumper back on and once I touched it to the battery it cranked no problem. Does anyone have a good idea what this means? Its obviously not the ignition switch like I assumed.

[jackhammer 544]

great to hear you have 2 tractors.. one of my biggest troubles was bustin those engine tin screw heads off. Still have four in that engine and a hard time getting to get them loose. Any suggestions from anyone ??

Edited May 15, 2015 by jackhammer

[PaulC 341]

great to hear you have 2 tractors.. one of my biggest troubles was bustin those engine tin screw heads off. Still have four in that engine and a hard time getting to get them loose. Any suggestions from anyone ??

I actually have 4 now and a parts tractor haha. and im sorry if I wasn't clear but I haven't removed the engine tins yet I meant the tins of the tractor itself, hood, rear fender, and foot boards.

 

I would guess you've already pb blasted them and the only other thing I would think is to try some heat?

[PaulC 341]

I put the lower your machine back together and have mowed with it twice now, very stout machine compared to my 312's. Went across the street to my neighbors who doesn't mow often and cruised right through his foot tall grass. 

Also very excited that I got the other machine up and running today and after a cleaning of the fuel system that one runs like a top as well!!! It ended up taking me regapping the points and installing a new condenser to get the spark to get it running. 

I'm very happy to say this deal has worked out great so far. Everything still needs a lot of work but now it's just small things and cosmetics. I have this crazy idea rolling around in my head that maybe I'll have a ton of stuff sandblasted and then powder coated all at once. Might be to much because I'm talking 3 tractors 3 or 4 decks and a plow but I'll just have to think about it and come up with a plan. Stay tuned for some 417 restoration threads!!