aaubrey96 0 #1 Posted March 13, 2015 So my newest horse I got last month I think and it usually cranks right over and fires up for me but today I went to get on it and it won't turn over. The only safety light that is on is the engine oil which is flashing, I'm assuming to tell me there is no oil pressure because it's not running. The pto is off and I'm in the seat with my foot on the brake, do now I'm lost. I can't even find the cilonoid to jump it that way, so hopefully someone can help me through this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #2 Posted March 13, 2015 Check your fuses. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #3 Posted March 13, 2015 Oh duh I should've known that. Ok thanks I'll check them when I get home Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #4 Posted March 14, 2015 Dosnt seem to be the issue. They all look good Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boovuc 1,090 #5 Posted March 14, 2015 On the Onan powered 400 and 500's, disconnect the battery then.............take every connector on the wire harness a part and spray it with electrical contact cleaner and put it back together. Check the battery terminals for corrosion. Check the solenoid connections and the key switch connections. Check the ground(s) and the starter connections. You can also disconnect the safety switches and connect the wires together to simulate the switch as being closed. Look for corrosion on the fuse block terminals. Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness. Things warmed up and now dampness has set in. This reeks havoc on electrical connections. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #6 Posted March 14, 2015 Ok I'll try that tomorrow thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #7 Posted March 14, 2015 What is the ID number or year of the 416-H? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #8 Posted March 14, 2015 I'm not sure. It's new enough to be a toro but it dosnt have the tag on the fender like my 414 and 252 do. Is that something toro changes the place of or do somebody repaint this tractor Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #9 Posted March 14, 2015 Tag should be on the left side of the fender pan, beside the seat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #10 Posted March 14, 2015 That's what I though. Nothing there Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #11 Posted March 14, 2015 If you can trace a circuit, here is the "start" circuit for most 416-H's Looking at the above diagram, the power comes from the battery thru the 25A fuse to the ignition switch. Assuming the ignition switch is okay, when turned to "start", the power continues thru the closed PTO switch, and neutral safety switch to the coil of the start relay. If all is okay in that circuit, the relay closes applying power to the start solenoid. Physically check all the switches in that circuit to see if they are operating. Sometimes the motion lever fails to engage the neutral switch, or the PTO lever fails to properly contact it's safety switch. If you have a test light or meter, it's easy to see if they are working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #12 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) On my 1996 416-H, you do not have to be in the seat, or have your foot on the brake in order for the start motor to engage. However, not doing that will cause the engine to have no spark, therefore not start, but it should turn over. Edited March 14, 2015 by rmaynard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,120 #13 Posted March 16, 2015 You're probably already tried this but wiggle the motion control lever while trying to start it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #14 Posted March 16, 2015 I did try it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericj 1,576 #15 Posted March 17, 2015 you can run a jumper wire from the battery + terminal to the coil + and see if it will start but then you still have to figure out what is keeping it from starting normally. check the 9 pin connector . lets back up a minute download and check the onan service manual if you haven't already and a wiring diagram and go through step by step. i had a 416-8 that i bought that the p o had tore apart and try to fix then gave up. after i put it back together i traced the problem back to either a wrong or bad ignition switch that i believe the p o had just changed. that took me and a friend a couple of hours to figure out. but we took it step by step and checked everything. good luck eric j Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #16 Posted March 17, 2015 Ok thanks. Can anyone tell me where the lever would be to let it free roll. I'd like to move it into my "shop" to work on it rather than my muddy front lawn Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theroundhousernr 589 #17 Posted March 17, 2015 It has no hydro release like the earlier Sundstrand transmissions. What you want to do is push the motion control lever to the full forward position and then push slowly. Some push really hard and only go a little then need a break. Some push really easy. They all push hard right after they have been run but not a problem in your case. They also make this terrible clicking noise which seems to be normal. Just don't push it fast or long distance and you should be ok. If you can have a friend tow with another tractor would be best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #18 Posted March 17, 2015 You would thought they'd of put a release on it like my 252-h has Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericj 1,576 #19 Posted March 18, 2015 use the jumper wire from the battery to the coil and start it up and drive it, but on the other hand the longer it sits the easier it gets to push so a couple of hrs later and the next day push real easy eric j Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #20 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Hooked the 414-8 to it tonight to pull it closer. I used low range second gear a touch above an idle, I figured that was about as fast as pushing it would've been. And right after I started tearing into it I found this after seeing how rough this plug that comes from this black box I'm debating on connecting every wire individually, what do you guys think? You think that blue wire could be my issue? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited March 19, 2015 by aaubrey96 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boovuc 1,090 #21 Posted March 19, 2015 From post #5: Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness. On the 400 and 500 series Wheelhorses......When they won't start, besides the usual checks of safety switches, you have to take those connectors a part and every single terminal connection plus the fuse block and look for decay, burnt contacts, corrosion, etc. If they sat outside for any length of time in their service life, they are going to have electrical issues. Some have electrical issues without ever having sat outside. You might find there are several bad connections that are causing the no start issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #22 Posted March 20, 2015 From post #5: Look for burnt connectors especially on the large pin connector on the wire harness. On the 400 and 500 series Wheelhorses......When they won't start, besides the usual checks of safety switches, you have to take those connectors a part and every single terminal connection plus the fuse block and look for decay, burnt contacts, corrosion, etc. If they sat outside for any length of time in their service life, they are going to have electrical issues. Some have electrical issues without ever having sat outside. You might find there are several bad connections that are causing the no start issue. on that last set of pictures that plug is melted or burnt. can i get away with color matching the wires and waterproof butt conectors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,563 #23 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Is this the connector to the indicator board? If so, the wiring you show will have no effect on the tractor starting. A properly functioning INDICATOR board does just that - indicates. The display board does not control any starting functions. A shorted pcb (very rare) could possibly cause some issues with the safety system. What are wire colors of the two positions showing melted connection areas? Edited March 20, 2015 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,897 #24 Posted March 20, 2015 No reason why you can't, but if it was mine, and I was going to all that trouble, I'd just replace the whole 9-pin connector. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aaubrey96 0 #25 Posted March 20, 2015 Blue, tan, and purple are the rough ones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites