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Horse46

Starter issues

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another suggestion for future carb cleanings etc. when you have everything back together and need fuel up to the carb instead of cranking the pants off the starter pull the gas cap put a paper towel or something similar over the opening and blow into the tank creating pressure in there. it will push the gas all the way up there for you then when you start cranking it should fire quickly....that is if you have spark.

 

just be sure to close the garage and cover the windows otherwise someone may see u and accuse you of making out with your tractor :laughing-rofl:

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Hopefully with a primer fitted I can refrain from making out with my tractor, beside the wife already thinks I spend to much time thinking about it already!

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Get or make a jumper wire of about 4 ft. in length. Use 12 gage wire and alligator clips. You will use this many times in working on these tractors.

Place one end on the positive side of the battery and the other on the positive side of the coil. Now try starting the engine. Let is know if it starts.

Ok so this is my progress so far, or should I say lack of it!

By passed the solenoid, fixed my newly made test wire to the + on battery and coil but still no spark, so to eliminate the plug I changed that too. Still no spark??

Also while testing all this, the nut on the end of the starter came loose again causing it to jam. I've sorted that now but still no spark.

However, I think I may have left the ignition key switched to on at some point as I did tonight, which I'm assuming is bad? I suppose this may have caused my coil to burn out?

I always learn the hard way, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous!

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Haved you replaced the points and condensor?

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OK, we are going about this the wrong way. Please tell us the make and modle number of the tractor and the motor. You can find the information on the cowling of the motor and there should be a tag usually on the rear fender pan of the tractor.

 

This information will allow us to diagnose your problem further. Do you have a multimeter?

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It's a C-101  with a10Hp motor, and those must be the numbers you need. It's all original as far as I know. 

Will have a multimeter by the weekend, won't really know what I'm doing with it though.

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post-14145-0-75674500-1418836307_thumb.j

Edited by Horse46

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I've just been studying the electrical diagrams and I think i may have connected the test lead i made to the - not the + on the coil. I thought because of a red wire it was the + but reading the diagram the condenser is on the - side.(The condenser has a red wire coming from it)  :confusion-confused:

Will have to check that out tomorrow.

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If my coil has expired, is it a Standard 12v replacement I need, like the type used on old cars? 

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If my coil has expired, is it a Standard 12v replacement I need, like the type used on old cars? 

I don't know if any Oil filled 12v Ignition Coil is suitable?. I imagine there are different types/ratings for Magneto, Battery ignition and multi cylinder engines.

So if I had to buy a new one, I personally would buy one that is quoted to comply with (or equivalent to) the specific part number. That's me though!.

 

I do have a couple of spare used Kohler Coils off 12hp K series Engines here in UK I can test for you if you need one.

I also have a spare set of new Kohler Points if you need them. 

Send me a PM if need help with this. 

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Anglo Traction, thanks for the offer, if I do need assistance with either I will let you know. :handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Do you know if they are normal or ballast ignition? Apparently if it has around 9v at the + side of the coil, then it is a ballast or 12v if it isn't.

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I've just been studying the electrical diagrams and I think i may have connected the test lead i made to the - not the + on the coil. I thought because of a red wire it was the + but reading the diagram the condenser is on the - side.(The condenser has a red wire coming from it)  :confusion-confused:

Will have to check that out tomorrow.

Just done a re test and still no spark,I also had the cover off the points and no spark from them either.

I should be getting a meter tonight  :handgestures-fingerscrossed:

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you CAN NOT use a coil off a car they have an external resister that cuts the voltage back and that resister is expensive as buying the proper coil. i've been told by people that know a lot more then me that a car coil puts 12 volts to the points with out the external resister where as a garden tractor ( kohler ) only uses 6 volts to fire the points. when you use an automotive coil you will fry the points. so spend a little extra and get the right coil if you need one

 

 

 

 

eric j

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Go to any auto parts store and get a starter for 1975 GM car. Or just ask for one with an internal resistor.

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Go to any auto parts store and get a starter for 1975 GM car. Or just ask for one with an internal resistor.

Hi km3h I'm in the UK but I imagine any 12v coil with internal resistor is going to be the same? I have a few on evilbay in my watching list, that arn't to expensive i just need to know if they are the right type.

I have  to go and do family stuff right now but will post what I'm looking at tomorrow.

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I have just tested  (with meter)what i think i need to do?

 

With the black lead on earth and red on the battery I'm getting 12.95 volts 

With the black lead on earth and red on any side of the coil i'm getting 8.84volts

Without further assistance I don't now what i'm testing for?

Edited by Horse46

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Also thinking of fitting one of these so i can see when the ignition is on. Hopefully I'll see this  remember  to turn off the ignition and not create problems for myself!

post-14145-0-89894100-1419264852.jpg

Edited by Horse46

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I really don't know. Go to a auto parts store and tell them you need a coil that has built in resistor. It is very important that you get the right one. 

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Little up date:

After looking at the wiring diagrams I decided I better go look for a fuse just in case I was being a complete plonker and had just blown a fuse.

I removed the plate covering the gear shifters, ( none under there) and I spotted a plug on the PTO side, which made me look at the PTO lever which somehow was engaged????

So I think to myself what a %#^+ I bet this has caused all my starting problems. No such luck, still no spark, but I did find out that my starter solenoid is fine, so I have a spare now.

So I went back to looking for a fuse but I can't find one, is this right?

I did another test on the coil with the PTO disengaged and I'm getting 12.65v which drops to 10.34 when cranked, but no spark :-(

Can anyone tell me what voltage should I be getting at the coil when cranking?

I'm also thinking of fitting some kind of buzzer for the ignition as I keep forgetting it's on as there are no warning lights.

Edited by Horse46

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The 12.65 volts at the coil (+) is battery voltage and correct. When cranking sounds low but it should still produce a spark.

 

Remove the spark plug so you can turn the engine over easier by hand turning the flywheel.

Instal the voltmeter on the (-) coil terminal.

Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now turn the motor over by hand and watch what the voltage does. It should go from the same battery voltage to 0 volts when the points are closed. When the points open the 12.65 volts should come back. If it does not go to 0 volts the points are not grounding the coil as they should when the points are closed. They could have dirty contacts, be misadjusted (should be about .018" when open) or a wiring problem between the points and the coil. 

There should also be a a condenser attached to the wire that goes from the coil to the points. They were originally connected to the coil (-) terminal along with the wire. The body of the condenser needs to be grounded to the engine.

 

The points open and close once for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft so let us know what you find.

 

Garry

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Hi Gary Happy Christmas.

Ok I've just done what u said. With the meter leads to earth and the red to the - side of the coil, I am getting 12.85 volts but nothing changes when the motor is turned over by hand, I did a few revolutions just to be sure but defo not getting zero volts at any time.

My condenser is on the negative side, but does it have to be fixed firm, mine can be moved fairly easily?

My lead from the points to the neg side of coil doesn't look fantastic either but like I said it all worked before I started messing with the carb bowl and flattened my battery.

Any suggestions at all are more than welcomed at this point, I'm getting kinda frustrated by it all.

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Yes the condenser body needs to be tight and requires a metal to metal contact. Secured on top of new paint is often enough to break the ground (earth) connection.

 

If the points are closing the contacts likely have invisible oxidation on them and also enough to not provide a ground circuit when closed. There is such a thing as a points file to polish the contact surfaces but a nail file will also work. Garnet paper (dark reddish brown) is about the only type of sandpaper that does not leave particles in the contact surfaces and is also acceptable.

After polishing the points drag a strip of clean white paper through the closed points to remove any residue or use a spray contact cleaner if you have some.

 

You are getting close to running.

 

You might be able to connect the voltmeter to the wire at the points which would check your wire but it is tight. No voltage at all and the wire is broken. 

 

Don't turn the engine over very fast as the voltage should not stay at 12 volts on the (-) side for very long - only when the points are open.

 

Garry

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The best way to make sure the points are working properly is to connect a test light to the - side of the coil. With point closed the light should light. points open light should be off

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Yes the condenser body needs to be tight and requires a metal to metal contact. Secured on top of new paint is often enough to break the ground (earth) connection.

If the points are closing the contacts likely have invisible oxidation on them and also enough to not provide a ground circuit when closed. There is such a thing as a points file to polish the contact surfaces but a nail file will also work. Garnet paper (dark reddish brown) is about the only type of sandpaper that does not leave particles in the contact surfaces and is also acceptable.

After polishing the points drag a strip of clean white paper through the closed points to remove any residue or use a spray contact cleaner if you have some

You are getting close to running.

You might be able to connect the voltmeter to the wire at the points which would check your wire but it is tight. No voltage at all and the wire is broken.

Don't turn the engine over very fast as the voltage should not stay at 12 volts on the (-) side for very long - only when the points are open.

Garry

I did run a strip of micro mesh through the points, I will do them again with the brown paper.

I'll retest for a voltage drop after that.

Watch this space I'm in a different time zone to you guys.

Thanks for the assistance though.

Edited by Horse46

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