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zieg72

Mule drive help

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Just came in from the garage. Yes, it's true, all 3 of mine are identical. I took some nice pics, and I'll upload them tomorrow.

Eldon.

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To me, the illustration has the tab more down than forward like it is in the picture. That might solve the outer pulley's problem. As for the inner pulley, no way in heck is that right! And I believe to the worse of the two. Pull that thing apart and find a different way to assemble it, or look closely for signs of it being bent.

One more tidbit. Which pulley are you using on the engine? The belt is pulled out in the picture, which would be true if you were on the outer pulley, which is wrong, it should be on the inner pulley. That will change the alignment as well.

Dale

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To me, the illustration has the tab more down than forward like it is in the picture. That might solve the outer pulley's problem. As for the inner pulley, no way in heck is that right! And I believe to the worse of the two. Pull that thing apart and find a different way to assemble it, or look closely for signs of it being bent.

One more tidbit. Which pulley are you using on the engine? The belt is pulled out in the picture, which would be true if you were on the outer pulley, which is wrong, it should be on the inner pulley. That will change the alignment as well.

Dale

I am fairly certain I have the belt on right as I followed the picture on the deck sticker. I will take better pictures with the whole belt routing and closer up pics of the mule drive itself. I am overwhelmed by the support here, Thanks so much...

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When I said to turn the bolt yesterday I should have just said part number 45 in the assembly drawing above. Its listed as the idler arm. He said to remove then turn it 180 degrees. That might sound better than turn the bolt. :D

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Ok, it's probably just me. BUT!

Part number 45, the bolt, the part with the tab, whatever you want to call it.

What holds it in place? Is it parts 47 and 48? I'd really like to see a SMALL (either photo of the pulleys above is excellent) picture or two of how it's put together on the inside.

I'm also curious as to the placement of the spring. As positioned it doesn't look like it would do much. But that could just be the angle the photo was taken.

Like most here, I've never seen this style of mule drive and I want to know more!

Dale

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Ok, it's probably just me. BUT!

Part number 45, the bolt, the part with the tab, whatever you want to call it.

What holds it in place? Is it parts 47 and 48? I'd really like to see a SMALL (either photo of the pulleys above is excellent) picture or two of how it's put together on the inside.

I'm also curious as to the placement of the spring. As positioned it doesn't look like it would do much. But that could just be the angle the photo was taken.

Like most here, I've never seen this style of mule drive and I want to know more!

Dale

I will take more pictures today. I leave to pick up my plow in 45 min. and will put it in my dads barn where the tractor is.

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Here are the pics comparing the two, and there is no difference (except that one is missing the belt guard). I'm sticking with my story, you need a different style mule drive.

Eldon.

P1085239.JPG

P1085240.JPG

P1085241.JPG

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A different style mule might cure his problem, but the fact remains, what he has is still a Wheel Horse part designed for use with the 520 and 60" deck.

To me, just changing drives is giving up rather than finding what's wrong.

Not that I've never given up and went a different route myself once or twice. Kind of like several threads here now, they are so heavy with large pictures there is no use me even bothering with them. If too many threads get like that, I'll once again be looking for a different forum.

Dale

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Sorry about loading it up with pics Dale, but I was just trying to show that the mule drives didn't change from at least mid '70's thru early 90's. C series thru 520.

If it fixes the problem, I don't see it as giving up. Maybe a PO put the wrong thing on there. I don't think he's had this since it was new.

Eldon.

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Im not an expert but I'll go out on a limb and say all the 520-H 60" decks would have come with the spring loaded mule drive. Over the years some were replaced with other mule drive, either will work, and there could have been some when new that were mounted by the dealers with the wrong mule drive.

It looks like that spring is attached to a bar that bolts onto the idler assembly rod through a slot. The slot gives it movement for the spring load and the bar is also what keeps the idler rod on the mule drive. If that doesnt make sense I took lots of pictures. :P

Now for the good and bad news. Good is I did take several pictures of a spring loaded style mule. The bad is I cant tell much difference from this one and the picture zieg72 posted. It does kind of look to me like the flat pulley in my picture is spaced out more from the mount. Loader is on his tractor or I would have mounted the mule for a better picture. I'll have to get the mechanic to look at it better and see what he thinks. :D

Link to all 7 mule drive pictures on photobucket

muledrive6-1.jpg

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Great pics Nick! That does look like what he has. Something is still way wrong with the belt angles on his, though. That's why I suggested changing over to the other style. As you can see in the pics I took, the pulley angle is different from his.

Eldon.

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Eldon, Thought my brothers mule would have some big obvious difference that would solve the problems but they sure do look the same to me also. Would have helped if I could have mounted it on the tractor for a better view of the belt angles. To be honest I dont know what that little spring even does. It could have something to do with the heavier shock load of the larger deck or maybe it just keeps the belt from hitting the taller deck. :D

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zieg72, The angle on the pulleys looks odd in the picture but is the drive belt running on the deck end ok? I forgot about this but the drive belt on the 60" deck goes in the bottom spindle pulley not the top pulley like other decks. Just taking a guess at the problem now though. :D

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Im not an expert but I'll go out on a limb and say all the 520-H 60" decks would have come with the spring loaded mule drive. Over the years some were replaced with other mule drive, either will work, and there could have been some when new that were mounted by the dealers with the wrong mule drive.

It looks like that spring is attached to a bar that bolts onto the idler assembly rod through a slot. The slot gives it movement for the spring load and the bar is also what keeps the idler rod on the mule drive. If that doesnt make sense I took lots of pictures. :P

Now for the good and bad news. Good is I did take several pictures of a spring loaded style mule. The bad is I cant tell much difference from this one and the picture zieg72 posted. It does kind of look to me like the flat pulley in my picture is spaced out more from the mount. Loader is on his tractor or I would have mounted the mule for a better picture. I'll have to get the mechanic to look at it better and see what he thinks. :D

Link to all 7 mule drive pictures on photobucket

muledrive6-1.jpg

Nick, could I ask you to take the outer pulley off and take a couple of pictures similar to my first so I could visually compare the tab welded to the shaft???? Putty pleeeease??? Unbelievable help obtained here.

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zieg72, The angle on the pulleys looks odd in the picture but is the drive belt running on the deck end ok? I forgot about this but the drive belt on the 60" deck goes in the bottom spindle pulley not the top pulley like other decks. Just taking a guess at the problem now though. :D

Yes the belt that drives the deck is on the bottom middle pulley as in the sticker diagram on the deck. I was thinking about why this type of mule drive is used? Could it be because the deck belt is on the middle pulley??? Which is why the outer pulley is angled that way????

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I think Nick and Dale are all over the right answer on this thing.

Zieg72's original pic seems to be a little misleading, just because of the angle it was taken. I don't think the inside pulley is a problem at all, and if another pic was taken from more to the side, it is probably identical to everyone else's mule drive setup. Mine looks th same, with both a 37SD and 42SD deck setup. My 48SD uses the old drive on the side, so I can't say anything changes on it.

It looks to me like the tab that the outer pulley mounts on on Zieg's drive is pointing to the front, and because of the angled tab, throws everything out of whack. Nick's pics show that same tab pointing down, which softens that extreme angle the belt rides on quite a bit. Moving the tab down forces the extreme angle to the point between the deck and mule drive, as opposed to between the PTO and mule drive.

I assume that is what Nick meant when he said to rotate the whole shaft it all rides on. That would turn the tab down.

My $.02...

Kevin

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First, Eldon. This thread is not nearly as loaded down with big pictures as several others are. So far, this one is only about a minute to load.

Now, I don't care what angle you look at the belt from in the picture, BOTH of those pulleys are at fault. The belt has an obvious bend to it as it exits (or enters) over the edge of the pulley, not in line with it as it should.

Only two things can cause this. Either the pulleys themselves are not right, or the belt isn't. The only way for the belt to not be lined up right, is for the routing to be wrong. OR, is the deck itself properly mounted SQUARELY under the tractor? If something is off to one side, it would throw off the belt alignment as well.

I mentioned this once before, but don't remember an answer. Is the inside pulley on the engine being used? The outside pulley would throw things off.

If that shaft is welded in like the other styles, there isn't going to be any changing that. If it's welded, I'm surprised it's listed as a separate part.

Man, I'd like to eyeball one of these first hand!!!!!!!

Dale

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zieg72, I might have to run up to Michigan tomorrow but if not I'll try to get a picture with the pulley removed.

Dale, If it helps I loaded pictures on photobucket of a spring loaded mule. You can look at the thumbnails there and just pick the one you want to wait on loading.

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/tracpics/muledrive/

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Ok, I looked at the thumbnails of the rest of ziegs muledrive. The full size images are just WAY to big.

But I can see how that darn shaft is held, and it's the rotation of that shaft, via the spring tension that holds the belt tension. Or adjusts for running flop. The big knob is for the tension proper. So the position of the tab can vary some in use.

I can also see excessive belt rubbing on the guard, indicating the pulley is out of proper position.

The pulleys also appear rusty, which would eat up belts, even with proper alignment.

Dale, thinking out loud in Michigan

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Ok, I looked at the thumbnails of the rest of ziegs muledrive. The full size images are just WAY to big.

But I can see how that darn shaft is held, and it's the rotation of that shaft, via the spring tension that holds the belt tension. Or adjusts for running flop. The big knob is for the tension proper. So the position of the tab can vary some in use.

I can also see excessive belt rubbing on the guard, indicating the pulley is out of proper position.

The pulleys also appear rusty, which would eat up belts, even with proper alignment.

Dale, thinking out loud in Michigan

Dale, The pictures are Nicks, that works fine. Thanks Nick for taking the time to post them up.

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Dale,

We must be lucky here. In a small village of 300 that is 5 miles from a town but we still have the choice of 2 cable company modems plus watch tv modem over a special antenna. All this from a village that had a tie for mayor one year, the winner was chosen by flipping a coin. :D

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I don't know. I've used BOTH pulleys on the PTO on both my decks with no alignment problems. The outer groove on the PTO bell has a smaller diameter, which runs the deck a little faster, but that's it.

My belt has the same amount of misaligment as Zeig's on the inner pulley, but the difference is that the belt is misaligned from the opposite direction. I don't understand how that is possible. Even if the belt was crossed and running backwards that wouldn't happen on mine. Regardless of which engine you use, the PTO bell is generally in the same spot with regard to the mule drive. I just don't get that... :D

I thought going out and looking at mine would help me, but I'm more confused than ever now.

I still say Zieg's AMOUNT of misalignment is not excessive on the inner pulley. BUT, his angles appear all wrong to me. Mine is off by the same amount if viewed from directly above, as in his first pic. It's just that my belt comes in from the right, not the left as his. :P Compare mine and his below:

Mine:

muledrive025.jpg

His:

post-4-11989484881.jpg

Zieg, can you post a pic from further out, that shows the routing on the PTO as well? I think that would be helpful.

Kevin

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I don't know. I've used BOTH pulleys on the PTO on both my decks with no alignment problems. The outer groove on the PTO bell has a smaller diameter, which runs the deck a little faster, but that's it.

My belt has the same amount of misaligment as Zeig's on the inner pulley, but the difference is that the belt is misaligned from the opposite direction. I don't understand how that is possible. Even if the belt was crossed and running backwards that wouldn't happen on mine. Regardless of which engine you use, the PTO bell is generally in the same spot with regard to the mule drive. I just don't get that... :D

I thought going out and looking at mine would help me, but I'm more confused than ever now.

I still say Zieg's AMOUNT of misalignment is not excessive on the inner pulley. BUT, his angles appear all wrong to me. Mine is off by the same amount if viewed from directly above, as in his first pic.

Zieg, can you post a pic from further out, that shows the routing on the PTO as well? I think that would be helpful.

Kevin

Kevin, I will get pictures in the next couple of days. The tractor is in my dads barn 13 miles away.

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