XI - Heated Up

[RMCIII 838]

Well, this is a first..... After just 40 minutes of mowing, the temp. gaugue was past half way, almost 3/4, but yet still in the green. It was a muggy day yesterday, but nothing that I have not mowed in before.... Before the "xi" team asks about my shields and vents being clean, yes, they are. Including the primary one that runs off the drive shaft..... I try to keep it spotless, if that term, could be used on a mower. But I think you get my drift...... I got it home, idled it down, and fired up the leaf blower. Aimed it right inot the primary cooling fan and temp came right down. The only thing that was different was no wind at all yesterday...... I doubt that had anything to due with it heating up, but it could have....... The foam sealer, around the fan, is even clean... Just don't know what to make of it.....

 

Rob

[Jim_M 178]

Check the cooling fins on the heads and cylinders, underneath the engine tins. In time hey like to plug with fine chaff and debris.

[daveoman1966 3,628]

Sometimes, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, my ol' lady gets hot, too.  Sometimes, they just do. 

[RMCIII 838]

Jim - cooling fins, engine, top, bottom, underside, inside, outside is all kept as clean as possible. Not to take away from that idea, it was one of the places I did check. But it is clean.

 

Dave - thanks for the info.... It is the first time it has happened so I was wondering if something was causing it to heat up internally, say lack of oil pressure?

 

Rob

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,487]

Rob. I don't have a clue. Just reading along.

Glenn

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

When I mowed last week (still using the 518xi), the grass was a bit thicker due to all the rain we had previously.  It really left a lot of chaff on the ground. The tractor may have gone a bit higher on the gauge than normal. Yesterday here was what I would term atrocious with the heat and humidity. Took the lazy man stance of staying in the A/C!

 

I assume: full throttle, oil to the top of normal, correct gap on spark plugs, and sharp blades to lessen the load. If worse comes to worse, there is a pocket under the shroud that is baffled on the left side from driver's seat that can only be cleaned by pulling the engine once. Kohler sells access panels that can be installed while the engine is out.

 

There is a set on eBay right now : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Kohler-Access-Panel-Kit-25-755-20-S-KB99-/151238438390

 

But I remember that yours doesn't have that many hours. I believe what you had were a combination of things to be a fluke (guaranteed for as long as it takes to read this ) - but be mindful and keep an eye on it.

 

 

[RMCIII 838]

John - is the shroud also the same shroud that has the foam around the fan cover?

 

Rob

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

No, it is what I would call the "tins," only they are plastic. Here is a view with the access panels held on by two bolts each installed on the engine. It is the left hand top corner under the fuel pump that is the problem. The other areas can be reached manipulating a shop vac hose.

Edited September 2, 2014 by shallowwatersailor

[RMCIII 838]

Thanks John, I had no idea about that panel...

 

Rob

[RMCIII 838]

Ok, this may be, the first response like this from me..... As my neighbor always says, "I know can never always be right, but so far I have never been wrong". Then I always politely remind him that he still has some years to get through before he can make that statement with me..... Regardless, JOHN,,,, you are on to something..... I have not figured it out yet, but you have me headed in the right direction....

 

I took the "Kohler" plastic cover off the carb tonight...... Can you tell me what I found? I'll help you out... There are (4) ports that allow air flow up to the air filter.... Can you guess which one was COVERED with dust, dirt and crud???? I'll give you a hint,, it was not the front (2), or the rear right, yeah being a little on the sarcastic side tonight....

 

Here is what I am stumped about.... I've had this GT for almost 2yrs..... I do routine checks on this. That goes from the underside and top side... I only have 10hrs mow time since mowing season started... I did a complete cleaning, top to bottom, before I even started mowing.. Changed oils, engine and trans, filters also... Oil, trans, and air..... Only 10hrs. and this (1) port looks like it has not been cleaned in years....   < That is nice... I'll let my farm boy personality come out    .... WTF!!!!!!! Are you serious, only 10hrs and that (1) intake side looks like it has been neglected for years.. Getting off that   

 

One anotherthing... John, your photo shows the panels (particuarly the left one) that I need to remove to clean.... Does yours have a plastic cover that "shields" the back half of the engine? I'll leave it at that. If yours does, you will know what I mean. It is not about taking up the "left" side of the engine, it is about a R&R on this F(*&(***%^ thing!

 

 

Rob

[Jim_M 178]

Those two panels cover exactly the places I was talking about. No matter how well you wash or blow out the fins, you can't clean that area unless you pull the blower housing off and that area is where everything packs in.

[RMCIII 838]

Thanks Jim and John. John, read your PM.. My questions is still this. So the photo shows the panels installed, correct? What is the 1 piece of plastic then, that is covering my back half of the engine? I would have to remove this 1 piece of plastic, in order to even put on the 2 seperate shields that are shown in your photo John.... It also looks like the 1 piece somehow is molded into the upper half of the PTO fan shroud.... < Hope I am making sense.

 

 

Rob

Edited September 3, 2014 by RMCIII

[doc724 924]

I have not had any of those vent ports blocked, but mine was pretty dirty inside the air filter.  If you cut grass in dusty conditions or are moving a lot of dirt, it makes sense to clean in there once in a while.  Also, I agree with Rob about the one piece of plastic.  What was Kohler thinking!.  If anyone finds away to get these off WITHOUT pulling the engine, let me know!

[RMCIII 838]

Don, John, Jim - If what I say last night, on the back of the engine, I think I would have to almost cut the 1 piece of molded plastic off, in order to install the 2 seperate panels that would replace the 1 solid panel???? I am just guessing, but I did not see any bolts on the solid piece I was looking at last nigt..... I am wondering if maybe a bead of RTV sealer around the edges of the plastic 1 piece would also stop the build up on the left side? Then the engine would not have to be R&R'd/

 

 

Rob

[Jim_M 178]

I get tired of trying to clean the back of the heads and cylinders on my 520xi. It needs it a couple times a year, so as soon as I get time, I plan to use an air powered cutoff wheel to cut a square out of the blower housing behind each cylinder. I'll just make some sheet metal covers to cover the holes and use sheet metal screws to hold them on.

 The fine stuff gets pulled through the screens by the fan, there's nothing you can do to keep it out, all you can do is make it easier to clean it out once it's in there. I've used bent wires and an air hose with a flexible nozzle attachment, it works, but it's time consuming and not as effective as being able to take a cover off so you can actually see what you're doing.

[doc724 924]

I need to study mine to come up with some suggestions.  The idea of the shroud is to keep the air plenum as tightly sealed as possible so that the cool air flows from the back, over the cylinder heads and finally over the muffler to exit at the front.  So what would happen if you drilled a 1/4 diameter hole in the plastic shroud behind the heads so you could insert an air nozzle (the kind with the 4-6 inch tube) into the hole to blow out the fins?

 

I don't think 1/4 would effect things that much.  You may even make it larger providing that you have a rubber plug to put in the hole afterwards.  Of course, drilling a hole in this confined space is all but impossible unless you have a right angle drill head.  I am guessing that is why Jim is going to use a cutoff wheel.

 

BTW, despite my woes about my xi shutting down when it gets hot, I have never had the engine temp gauge go much beyond a tad to the right of center, still well within the green.  Also, the fact the gauge is green and yellow (v. green and red) would lead me to believe that there is more margin of error than we think.  If there was not a gauge, would we even know?  The Command Pro in my 314 does not have a gauge.  It is a single cylinder, but when I bought it, I pulled off the tins and the main shroud was packed solid with fine dirt.  You could even see where the flywheel had worn a groove in the dirt, yet the fins on the head were free from most debris!

 

Finally, running lean will increase cylinder temps.  I assume Rob checked this as well

[doc724 924]

One more thing...Take the air filter plate (the square yellow chromate plated steel part) off the carb (three screws hold it on) and clean under it.  I found a lot of fine particulate dirt under mine in the "V" space between the two cylinders.  Also, the pix that John posted earlier is for the engine model with the heavy duty air filter.  If you need a heavy duty air filter, you probably are working in extreme dusty conditions.  None of the Toro's were equipped this way.  So are we trying to solve a non problem?

[RMCIII 838]

If the said "problem" is only us "overthinking" the issue of the gauge running past center, then I would say no.... But when you keep an eye on things, as closely as we do with our equipment, then I would say yes there may be an issue that should be looked into... I do get a little anal retentive about equipment at times. I also realize that it may be just part of the wearing down of the engine..... Still more to the point though, I would have to believe that something had finally caused the temp to run where it did on mine... Especially since the week prior it never even made it to the middle of the gauge, stayed slightly left of the gauge

.

[doc724 924]

Hi Rob,

 

Wow, you were up early today!  You do make some valid points.  I know "the incident" was only 2 days ago so you are probably not going to cut again for another 4-5 days.  It would be interesting to see if the problem repeats.  The gauge and temp sender could also be suspect, but I don't know of any way to test that theory.  The mystery continues.

[Jim_M 178]

If it's not a problem right now, it will be. Once the back of the jugs and heads starting packing with chaff, dirt, cotton wood, etc. they just get worse every time you mow and you start to see the temperature climb steadily higher. 

 I've replaced a lot of head gaskets on zero turns with Kohler Commands and every one of them had the back of the jugs and heads packed full of dirt, shutting off the cooling air flow. None of these machines have had temperature gauges on them so the owners had no clue that they were overheating them. 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Here are the instructions for the Access Panels. Jim, be careful with the cutoff wheel as the wiring for the ignition runs behind that shroud. But I think that the firewall is too close to gain sufficient access to manipulate a cutoff wheel there.

[RMCIII 838]

Don- yep, up early, heading to Illinois this afternoon so I had much to get done this am....

 

I plan on wathching the gague next time I mow to see if it was a fluke or something has truly changed(clogged) the air flow to the back of the heads...

 

Jim - how many hours were you seeing on the engines before you noticed temp. fluxuation?

 

Rob

[Jim_M 178]

The lowest hour machine I put head gaskets in had just over 400 hours, but I think that one still had the original oil and filter also. Most of them are in the 600-700 hour range at minimum before they accumulate that much dirt and their owners seem to try a little harder to maintain them also.

 The wiring is all tie wrapped to the intake manifold. It's tight but I think there's enough room to make the cuts with an inline air cutoff tool and a 3" wheel.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Jim_M

[RMCIII 838]

Even raises more of a question then on mine.... Only 287hrs so far.... Thanks everyone!

 

Rob

[Jim_M 178]

It all depends on what you're mowing. If you have a lot of cottonwoods or dandelions or mow dry crunchy grass like we had last year it will plug up faster. There are a lot of cottonwood trees in the 1100 acre wetlands behind me, that's what I have problems with. The stuff accumulates like snow drifts in parts of my yard and when I clean my engine out i looks like I'm pulling out pieces of a wool blanket. It only takes a few hours to accumulate that much.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Jim_M