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1977.d-160

'77 D160 Ran out of gas - now it won't stay running. Thoughts?

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Last storm I was using my D160 to plow the snow.  It was doing a great job until I ran out of gas.  Once refueled it took a bit to get started as is normal/expected.  It ran ok for about 5 minutes then started bogging & stalled.  It would restart, then sputter out when under load of the hydro trans.  Then it stalled again & wouldn't restart.  I let it sit for an hour & charged the battery.  It started again, but wouldn't drive & eventually failed to stay running.

 
I pulled apart the fuel pump and gave it a good squirt w/ carb cleaner while cranking for a few seconds & reassembled.  New fuel filter too.  Fuel is squirting (more like running/steady dribble) from elec fuel pump.    Also pulled the diaphragm off the side of the carb & squirted. 
 
Dry-gas didn't work so I siphoned virtually all gas & debris from fuel tank.  Screen strainer in tank looks fine, but I did give the gas line a shot w/ the air nozzle.  1/2 tank of fresh gas...  I generally use fuel stabilizer, but nothing in this fresh gas.
 
Oil level is OK  
Fuel lines OK
Choke & throttle linkages are OK.
Cracked open the fuel to ensure no vacuum
 
I wanted to pull the carb, but the intake manifold is under the exhaust pipes and I can't get it out.  I was able to unscrew a dowel to free up one side.  I can't get the other and the exhaust pipe wasn't budging.  While in there I hit the points lightly w/ some abrasive paper (they don't look great, but seem ok).  I put that all back together & settled for pulling the top (bowl) of the carb off & spraying it.
 
Now it runs w/ starting fluid, but it won't stay running on its own...
 
I'm wondering where to go from here...  I'm thinking if I can get a carb rebuild kit (gaskets/jets) I'll get a cheater bar on the pipe wrench & get that dang exhaust pipe & manifold off somehow.  Pipes are rusted tight.  They seem solid enough to get some force on them.  Where can I get a carb rebuild kit?  Think that's it??
 
I've already read this link: 
 
Sorry so wordy... Looking fwd to the groups help (again).

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Judging by what had happened, I would bet you sucked up some debris into the carb and or into both the carb and the fuel pump. A dribble of gas from even an electric fuel pump may not be sufficient to feed the carb.

 

If you poured gasoline into the top of the carb then fired it, does it run?

Try to refrain from firing the tractor on the either! It is really bad on the top end of the motor.

 

The electric pumps I have used would spurt gasoline out similar to a diaphragm pump.

 

If you have a small gas tank, run a line to it and gravity fuel directly to your carb and try to start it.

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Pull the gas tank fitting and disassemble it. Probably crud in their. I have 2 Ds and they both did what your did. It was a cruddy fitting on both.

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My dads D-160 had the same problem the problem was that the (whatever the floats made out of) swelled up which would not allow it to go up or down. They do however sell brass float replacements just my .02 cents.

Edited by Desko

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My Vote is crude in the tank outlet

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I like the idea of trying a gravity tank to see if its fuel related,which I would think after running it dry its a good chance it is debris as stated allready

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Thanks for all the feedback!  Here's what I did today:

 
1) Siphoned tank dry & got some more detritus out of the tank (it's fairly clean inside).
 
2) Followed suggestions to remove the petcock/fuel shutoff & clean it. It looked & flowed ok to begin with but I sprayed it for good measure.
 
3) Shot of air in fuel line at fuel pump back through fuel filter & into a bucket where it connects to the tank.  Gas looked fine, no hose parts or junk in it.
 
4) Disassembled & cleaned fuel pump.  There was crud build-up behind the diaphragm where the spring goes.
 
5) Reassembled everything, purged air from fuel line before testing pump - pump seems OK.
 
Won't fire unless I squirt it w/ ether.  I ran it that way for about 20 seconds to give fuel a chance to get back into carb.  Still won't run on its own.
 
I used the energy from my frustration to get the exhaust pipe free.  Then I proceeded to pull the carb & clean it.  The crown on the valve that rides above the floats is 'off kilter' in that if it were a hat it would be put on crooked.  It doesn't look like any I've seen before - normally they're straight.  Is that normal?  Where can I get a new one?
 
Intake manifold gaskets are shot (see picture).  I picked up high heat engine silicone and a roll of gasket material (on left of img / description at top of pic).  Can I get gaskets made for this?  Should I try cutting my own gaskets w/ this stuff?  It's thinner than what was on there by 1/2 or 1/3 as much.  Should I double it up?  Isn't that generally a bad idea?  Should I use the high heat silicone?
 
I lost count of the air to fuel screws.  There's two, I assume one for low rpm & one for high.  I don't know which is which or what they should be set to.  I think one was ~2 1/4 turns out.  Lost count on the other when a buddy stopped by, but it seemed like 3 or 4 turns in until it bottomed out...
 
Thanks again everyone

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Its best to buy new gaskets in my opinion they sell the gaskets on eBay around $14 free shipping. What do you mean by "off kilter"- crooked all I could guess is you are talking about the needle valve.

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I looked on ebay, but am not sure which are the correct intake gaskets.  Can anyone send a link?  

 

Definitely looks like the float needle is junk.  Where can I find a new needle?  PartsTree shows Toro Consumer 201210 is available through some Wheel Horse Distribution Network - whatever that is...  Can bring it to tractor supply or napa and match it up to one?  There's a motor cycle shop down the rd - maybe they'll have something??

 

Anyone know the settings for the mixture screws on the carb?  I'm kicking myself for not paying closer attention to them.

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Forgot to mention earlier that I also had tried the gravity feed from hooking up a fuel tank - it was a good suggestion too.

 

Looks like I've found the culprit - now to find a replacement & gaskets..........

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To make your own gaskets what I use is the cardboard from something like a filter box. Try to find something without all the shinny printing on it, but that thickness of cardboard. Lay over the manifold and talk a small ball pen hammer and tap out.

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Img attached is a sketch of the jet I'm looking for in case anyone knows where I can get one...  Precision isn't actually to .001" accuracy!

 

If I can't find intake gaskets, I'll probably try rolling my own w/ the gasket material I picked up.  Should I double-layer them or not??

 

Anyone know how to set the carb's mixture screws?

 

Thanks again

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Gaskets, needles, floats etc... Here

 

http://onanparts.com/

 

You can download the manual here

 

 

You have an onan BF/MS

That is a marvel DD carb. If it doesnt have the brass float get one. The Marvel DD I have has been a PITA to get set right, but if yours was running good before you ran it out of gas then it should be fine after you rebuild it.

 

Goto youtube and search for "How to make gaskets". Lots of vids on it

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Awesome Cold One thanks!  Yeah, she's got the brass floats.

 

Looks like this is what I need:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONAN-MARVEL-SCHEBLER-CARBURETOR-KIT-W-FUEL-PUMP-/331113465257?_trksid=p2054897.l4276 Jets & gaskets w/ a fuel pump ta boot!

 

Now to read the manual for the carb adjustment.

 

Thx again!

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Go to eBay and search for "ONAN DD CARBURETOR"

 

If you get into the fuel pump you need to be very careful not to bend the read valves.

Edited by JackC

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the carb on the D 160's can get plugged rather easy. I had it happen to my 160 and after I cleaned and blew it out it still wouldn't run. I told a guy that had one and he told me its the carb  and to reclean the carb. I took the dam thing apart again, soaked the carb over night. I reached down the carb and blew air in every hole I could find. Put it back together and it run like a charm. I had 2200 hrs on it and junked the motor at 2531hrs. It started to burn oil and I couldn't get parts for it

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Thx for all the feedback. I'm on the road this week - I'll let the group know how I make out after I get the parts & install them. Should be sometime next week.

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