D Series Restoration

[Hodge71 663]

My PTO was never off the engine, although it was the same as far as alignment. The PTO sheave on the bottom has a flat side and a side that protrudes out farther than the pully face. I had to spin mine around for it to line up with the inside engine sheave.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

I like the use of the wire coat hangers.....don't fret with the pitting.....something has to give it's age away....kind of like wrinkles on a person...lol

That pitting gives it character...the proof, it's a survivor. :thumbs:

[otrelwood 32]

thanks i'll give that a try

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Nice job on the pads Jeff - enjoy all the filing to surface them. I just kept thinking of the OEM price!

have you put the pto on your engine yet?if so did the pulley for the rear pto line up ? mine sure wont, the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I think I can answer this one for you 'otrelwood' (sorry don't know your real name).

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it i my resto thread in the 'Euro' section but it took me ages to puzzle out as all the PTO parts for my D-200 came with it in a sack. It didn't helpthat there's no diagram of the manual PTO on the Toro diagrams for a D-200 but you'll see the parts I'm about to describe on the electric PTO diagram.

The correct position of the top (PTO) double V groove pulley on the crank shaft is determined by two parts which had gone missing.

Inside the center bore in the pulley you should find a groove for a spring clip (you may need to clean any grease out to locate it)

A spring clip sits in this and there should also be a washer that then sits between this and the end of the crank shaft when you reassemble it.

Without these two parts the pulleys don't line up and... as you tighten the end bolt the pulley just keeps getting pulled in on the crank shaft until the clutch plates bite together.

Hope this helps.

Andy

[JamesBe1 80]

Nice job on the pads Jeff - enjoy all the filing to surface them. I just kept thinking of the OEM price!

have you put the pto on your engine yet?if so did the pulley for the rear pto line up ? mine sure wont, the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I think I can answer this one for you 'otrelwood' (sorry don't know your real name).

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it i my resto thread in the 'Euro' section but it took me ages to puzzle out as all the PTO parts for my D-200 came with it in a sack. It didn't helpthat there's no diagram of the manual PTO on the Toro diagrams for a D-200 but you'll see the parts I'm about to describe on the electric PTO diagram.

The correct position of the top (PTO) double V groove pulley on the crank shaft is determined by two parts which had gone missing.

Inside the center bore in the pulley you should find a groove for a spring clip (you may need to clean any grease out to locate it)

A spring clip sits in this and there should also be a washer that then sits between this and the end of the crank shaft when you reassemble it.

Without these two parts the pulleys don't line up and... as you tighten the end bolt the pulley just keeps getting pulled in on the crank shaft until the clutch plates bite together.

Hope this helps.

Andy

I hope I remember this when I re-assemble my other engine. I might be trolling the board for an answer to this in a few weeks.

Thanx for the excellent explanation Andy.

[otrelwood 32]

well i guess i need to find the spring clip asnd washer as i have two clutch assembilies and neither has those two parts thanks my name is lonny

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Glad I could be of help Lonny.

I'm no expert on Ds but I've managed to solve a few of the puzzles during my resto.

I found a clip from my box of assorted standard size internal and external ones, we call them 'circlips' over here. For the washer, again it was just a standard one from my collection that slid inside the shaft.

Oh, and welcome to the 'D group' that seems to be coming together.

Andy

[Trouty56 565]

I'm not sure of whether I saw those parts myself.....Andy, look at this procedure and pinpoint where those parts are please. Is it with the pulleys or the clutch plate????

PTO Removal.pdf

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Sorry if I've spooked any of you but I guess my description probably wasn't good enough as I didn't have a diagram to use.

I don't know why but the Toro diags for my exact model D-200 don't include a manual PTO. I found the answer in the electric PTO diagram so didn't look any further but having looked at earlier models, they give the diagram so.....

When I remove the end bolt (17) and end cap (16) the pulley assembly can be slid off the crankshaft consisting of the outer clutch assembly, double V pulley and its bearing and washers etc. On mine it all holds together as one unit so I considered it as such in my original description.

The spring clip (circlip) and washer are parts 14 & 15. The clip sits in a grove in the bore of part 13 of the pulley assembly with the washer (14) behind it. Together these determine how far the pulley assembly will travel along the crank shaft before the end bolt and cap tighten.

When Lonny said:

the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I thought yep, remember looking down on mine and seeing the exact same thing. Having put a clip and washer in place they lined up. I don't know the exact thickness of washer required but I found one that did the job by trial and error.

Hope this clears things up.

Andy

[otrelwood 32]

Well i'm sure glad there are people on here that give quick responses so i dont have to keep trying to dream up the right answer. thanks guys this is a lot of fun. i've got 10 horses in various stages of completion or incompletion so the projects get a little attention at a time . but its still fun

[Hodge71 663]

The reassembly process has begun...but I see now that its going to be slow....Already some issues but heres pics of todays progress, tins on the engine, rear fenders, inner fenders, got that god forsaken tongue thing off and the new 3 point brackets on. Got the turning brake calipers on but that showed me the 1st problem. Apparently someon had the hubs off the axles at some point and when they put them back on they drove them on so far that theyre almost against the caliper.... WITHOUT THE PADS IN IT YET!!!!! I have no clue how I'm going to get these hubs moved out about 1/2-3/4 of an inch. I saw what Paul went thru getting his off....

I also got my fancy fused ignition system. I will be using this to fuse the fuel pump, lighting and igniton system

[JamesBe1 80]

Looks great Jeff.

Sounds like you are going to have to make a spacer to move the turning brake hubs our further. Either that or set up as per the original intent. What hold them in place along the axle? Good luck getting them off.

[JamesBe1 80]

Sorry if I've spooked any of you but I guess my description probably wasn't good enough as I didn't have a diagram to use.

I don't know why but the Toro diags for my exact model D-200 don't include a manual PTO. I found the answer in the electric PTO diagram so didn't look any further but having looked at earlier models, they give the diagram so.....

When I remove the end bolt (17) and end cap (16) the pulley assembly can be slid off the crankshaft consisting of the outer clutch assembly, double V pulley and its bearing and washers etc. On mine it all holds together as one unit so I considered it as such in my original description.

The spring clip (circlip) and washer are parts 14 & 15. The clip sits in a grove in the bore of part 13 of the pulley assembly with the washer (14) behind it. Together these determine how far the pulley assembly will travel along the crank shaft before the end bolt and cap tighten.

When Lonny said:

the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I thought yep, remember looking down on mine and seeing the exact same thing. Having put a clip and washer in place they lined up. I don't know the exact thickness of washer required but I found one that did the job by trial and error.

Hope this clears things up.

Andy

I just took the PTO off of the engine from my donor horse. I noticed that there was a small round piece hanging around in the back of the assembly doing nothing. I found out it was part of the bearing assembly (No. 3 on the drawing). The bearing rusted away enough that it pretty much fell apart.

It turns out to be Toro PN 102914.

M&D has it on special for $107.00. Ouch. Anybody got the specs on this bearing? I can't imagine it really being more than a $30 part. There is no way I am going to pay over $100 for a bearing unless it is made of some type of semi-precious metal and blessed by the leader of a religious order.

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Looking great Jeff - I'm getting that 'deja-vu' feeling and yes I found everything took far longer than I imagined.

Re the hub position, is there actually about 1/2" - 3/4" of axle prtruding beyond the outside face of each hub?

I needed to get the hubs off mine to do the seals. One was actually a bit loose on the axle where one of the set screws had been slackened off by the PO (probably in an attempt to do the same job). I thought the hub would come off real easy but it didn't. I made a puller and it still needed some force to get it off. When I inspected it there was no rust but where the set screw had been done up real tight it had bitten into the axle and caused the surrounding metal to mushroom up around it despite the hardness of an axle. It wasn't much but enough to make pulling the hub difficult such are the tolerances. The hub wouldn't push back on by hand so i used some abrasive to carefully remove what in a way was a pretty small distorted area after which the hub slid on and off as though there had never been an issue.

I had to give up on the second hub, the puller started to bend. Strengthened up the puller and tried again. This time the puller didn't give but I was applying so much force that there was a real danger of breaking the hub. These are a real pain! In my case I needed to pull them to do the seals and as the one I changed was leaking the most I've left the other side for now. What I'm going to try is to use the method that helped release the first side so I've just pinched up the screw that bears on the key and left the other which bites into the axle loose. I'm hoping that in time it will loosen up slightly and alow me to pull it.

Looks great by the way without that appendage on the back!

Andy

[coldone 35]

I had to give up on the second hub, the puller started to bend. Strengthened up the puller and tried again. This time the puller didn't give but I was applying so much force that there was a real danger of breaking the hub. These are a real pain! In my case I needed to pull them to do the seals and as the one I changed was leaking the most I've left the other side for now. What I'm going to try is to use the method that helped release the first side so I've just pinched up the screw that bears on the key and left the other which bites into the axle loose. I'm hoping that in time it will loosen up slightly and alow me to pull it.

I just had to pull the hub off my axle for the dif rebuild. my axle was removed from the rearend so dont know if this will work for you.

Install the puller, I was using a gear puller, put some pressure on it. Use a hammer and give the the pullers bolt several good whacks. You may have to experiment with the bolt tension, I found if mine was too tight it wouldnt move the hub. I was able to move the hub about 1/8 inch at a time with this method. You may want to use a spacer or something between the puller bolt and axle. It appeared that the puller bolt caused the the axle end to distort and swell up which added to the difficulty of getting it off. I used a file to make the axle end smaller and cleaned up where the grub screws had distorted the metal on the axle and key. The hub then slid on and off with no problems.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Sorry if I've spooked any of you but I guess my description probably wasn't good enough as I didn't have a diagram to use.

I don't know why but the Toro diags for my exact model D-200 don't include a manual PTO. I found the answer in the electric PTO diagram so didn't look any further but having looked at earlier models, they give the diagram so.....

When I remove the end bolt (17) and end cap (16) the pulley assembly can be slid off the crankshaft consisting of the outer clutch assembly, double V pulley and its bearing and washers etc. On mine it all holds together as one unit so I considered it as such in my original description.

The spring clip (circlip) and washer are parts 14 & 15. The clip sits in a grove in the bore of part 13 of the pulley assembly with the washer (14) behind it. Together these determine how far the pulley assembly will travel along the crank shaft before the end bolt and cap tighten.

When Lonny said:

the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I thought yep, remember looking down on mine and seeing the exact same thing. Having put a clip and washer in place they lined up. I don't know the exact thickness of washer required but I found one that did the job by trial and error.

Hope this clears things up.

Andy

.

There is no way I am going to pay over $100 for a bearing unless it is made of some type of semi-precious metal and blessed by the leader of a religious order.

:ROTF:

[1maidenfan 201]

Sorry if I've spooked any of you but I guess my description probably wasn't good enough as I didn't have a diagram to use.

I don't know why but the Toro diags for my exact model D-200 don't include a manual PTO. I found the answer in the electric PTO diagram so didn't look any further but having looked at earlier models, they give the diagram so.....

When I remove the end bolt (17) and end cap (16) the pulley assembly can be slid off the crankshaft consisting of the outer clutch assembly, double V pulley and its bearing and washers etc. On mine it all holds together as one unit so I considered it as such in my original description.

The spring clip (circlip) and washer are parts 14 & 15. The clip sits in a grove in the bore of part 13 of the pulley assembly with the washer (14) behind it. Together these determine how far the pulley assembly will travel along the crank shaft before the end bolt and cap tighten.

When Lonny said:

the pulley on the bottom is in the middle of the two grooves on the engine pulley .any ideas?

I thought yep, remember looking down on mine and seeing the exact same thing. Having put a clip and washer in place they lined up. I don't know the exact thickness of washer required but I found one that did the job by trial and error.

Hope this clears things up.

Andy

I just took the PTO off of the engine from my donor horse. I noticed that there was a small round piece hanging around in the back of the assembly doing nothing. I found out it was part of the bearing assembly (No. 3 on the drawing). The bearing rusted away enough that it pretty much fell apart.

It turns out to be Toro PN 102914.

M&D has it on special for $107.00. Ouch. Anybody got the specs on this bearing? I can't imagine it really being more than a $30 part. There is no way I am going to pay over $100 for a bearing unless it is made of some type of semi-precious metal and blessed by the leader of a religious order.

I have a used set of pto bearings(good condition) if interested. PM sent

[JamesBe1 80]

I have a used set of pto bearings(good condition) if interested. PM sent

Thanx John.

Like I mentioned in my pm. I am going to try to measure the critical dimensions and get some from a different source. If I am successful, I will post the info here.

[Operator 7]

Jeff, it just dawned on me here - - your the one I got those C-195 manuals from! And very nice manuals they were! And you had the tractor I was going to haul back to Wisconsin for Tom.

Sorry I didn't remember sooner!

[Hodge71 663]

Randy that was my lil brother with the Super C's and Manuals. I'm the one that was going to buy your D off of you last year, Thats the transaction we had...almost...lol. . Its still all good my friend

[Operator 7]

OK now I get it!

[Hodge71 663]

Todays progress was slow but steady. Found some real wiring doozies let me tell ya. Tail lights and amber clearance lights are in..... more to come tomorrow.

Whoever built the homemade starter wire was a FREAKIN' GENIUS!!! Lamp cord!?...REALLY!?!!? New one cost me a whole 4 bucks at TSC!!

[JamesBe1 80]

Lamp cord! Gotta love (or hate) yankee ingenuity.

The new lights look great.

Did you get the turning brakes straightened out?

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Whoever built the homemade starter wire was a FREAKIN' GENIUS!!!

Lamp cord! Gotta love (or hate) yankee ingenuity.

Hmm.. judging by the humerous emails that circulate the world eventually reaching the UK, isn't this what you guys refer to as 'Redneck Technology'?

Well, its alive and well over here too and the PO of my D had a masters degree in it I think.

Wheel bearings got rather a lot of play in them because they're shot? Don't replace them, just make some 'special' washers to hold things together a bit better. Oh, and while at it, might as well throw away the dust caps as they won't fit any longer.

Turning brakes becoming ineffective because the pads need changing? Don't replace them, weld in an extra piece of angle to force the caliper up at an odd angle - that'll make 'em work for a bit longer.

The PO of my D was also a genius. There ought to be a RS award for these sort of people.

Andy

[Hodge71 663]

Andy my left front wheel looked very similar to that. Mine didnt have a big square washer though, it was a huge fender washer and about 3 smaller washers stacked up. I had to remake a new hub because they beat the heck outta the original one when they installed a new bearing. It was the wrong bearing on top of it ...lol. I do have pics somewhere a few pages earlier in this post.