Additives

[Teddy da Bear 11]

On my new (to me) 1972 Raider 10 is the original 10hp. Kohler.

It does smoke a bit on start up and does appear to be "blue" in color meaning that it is burning a little oil.

Is there anything (additive) recommended by the members of this group to keep it from smoking and to prolong the engine life? I mean instead of tearing it down and rebuilding it.

Thanks

[Curmudgeon 28]

Amsoil?

:whistle:

[Mith 2]

You could just replace the rings. Takes a couple hours to do, just pop the head off and the sump and replace them. No need to do any other work.

When its cold out I usually do it while the engine is warm, nicer on the hands, and you start it before it cools right down again. I did my commando 8 this winter, it was smoking quite badly, no smoke now and I've been mowing with it all summer.

The only parts you need are head gasket, sump gasket and a ring set.

I'd rather do that than put stuff in my oil.

If you insist, I have used the 'mystery oil', that really thick gooey oil that you add to normal oil, that seems to work for a bit. It wont get you any compression back though.

[Curmudgeon 28]

You could just replace the rings. Takes a couple hours to do, just pop the head off and the sump and replace them. No need to do any other work.

When its cold out I usually do it while the engine is warm, nicer on the hands, and you start it before it cools right down again. I did my commando 8 this winter, it was smoking quite badly, no smoke now and I've been mowing with it all summer.

The only parts you need are head gasket, sump gasket and a ring set.

I'd rather do that than put stuff in my oil.

If you insist, I have used the 'mystery oil', that really thick gooey oil that you add to normal oil, that seems to work for a bit. It wont get you any compression back though.

Trying to remember exactly how the Kohler was on my Raider 10, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to pull the engine to get the oil pan off.

I do agree though, go through the engine, fix it right. Course that can add up too, one of those, "If you're going to do it, do it right" could lead to oversize piston, valve guides, etc. But at least when you're done, you have a like new engine good for another 40 years.

[Mith 2]

Dale, I had to take the engine out, but its only 4 bolts and a few wires. You don't need to remove any of the parts on the outside of the engine. I think most of them you can just unbolt the block from the sump without unbolting the sump from the frame.

The point I was trying to make is that you can just replace the rings, no need to rebore the block or replace the piston. Cheap and quick fix for lightly smoking engines.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Dale, I had to take the engine out, but its only 4 bolts and a few wires. You don't need to remove any of the parts on the outside of the engine. I think most of them you can just unbolt the block from the sump without unbolting the sump from the frame.

The point I was trying to make is that you can just replace the rings, no need to rebore the block or replace the piston. Cheap and quick fix for lightly smoking engines.

Drive belt? Belt guard? Fuel line? Not to mention those Kohler's are anything but light, and I think we're talking about a starter/generator one at that. Not trying to make it more complicated than it is, but it is an engine removal. Gotta keep it realistic.

Quick and cheap, or done right is always up to the individual paying the bill! I prefer the do it all, correclt, while you're there, way, but have been known to go the fast and dirty route too.

Who knows, might pull it apart and doing it all right might mean just rings!!!!

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Amsoil?

Dino Glue!

Mike At this point not even AMSOIL can most likely rescue your engine, the best thing to do would be to take the head off and mic the cylinder walls and see if it is within specs, that will tell you the story, and if you need just rings. If you install rings and have a worn out cylinder or piston, then you may cause more damage to your engine. The best guy we have around here for machining is Kevin at Pipestone small engines or take it to Ridge they can do you machining for ya if ya gotta get down that deep.

On the topic of additives ~ No oil manufacture will warranty their oil with another persons product added. A premium oil should have the necessary additives in their lubricant. Problem is many don't. But I know one that does!

P.S. If ya need to borrow a set of Inside Mics send me a mail.

Duke

[Mith 2]

We are talking as an alternative to using some additive to oil, I'm sure you would agree that refreshing the rings is a superior alternative. I'll agree that you cant just re-ring and expect the results you would get from a full rebuild.

You could quite easily re-ring in a mornings work for small money. As compared to a full rebuild thats a very short period of time, and very cheap. I'd reckon that it'd completely stop the oil burning too.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Dino Glue!

Duke!!

You took the bait!

You're a good man.

Now, back to the subject at hand........

[catman81056 3]

If you just re-ring, I would think you would want to hone the cylinder. It sure would help seat the new rings.

[bambooheels 0]

:whistle: additives are junk, i dont care what you use, its jut a scam to get you to spend money. oil is oil is oil....period, any additives will only do nothing or harm your engine at best.

[Curmudgeon 28]

oil is oil is oil....period,

Dare I say it?

Nope, not this time.

On a side note to any new members, I've been involved in, let's say a bit of a debate over oil. While at times it's gotten quite passionate, I'll always respect another's opinion, or at least try to. That does not prohibit me from engaging in more than my fair share of good natured ribbing!

[linen beige 14]

If you just re-ring, I would think you would want to hone the cylinder. It sure would help seat the new rings.

Re-ringing without at least "Deglazing" the cylinder is just throwing your ring set money away. If your cylinder has any vertical scratches in it from the old rings or piston scuffing the new rings will not seal against them, and there will be little of the oil controlling cross hatching left. This will cause the new rings to run dryer than the old ones, and put more strain on the rod. The new rings will likely wear out even faster than the old rings that are in it now, as well as scratch the block even more deeply. The best you can hope for is that the new rings would have less end gap resulting in less blow by through them. And since you'll have to drop the pan to remove the rod cap to remove the piston so you can hone, (Does Amsoil sell cutting oil?) might as well do it all. Check your valve guides while you have the head off. There's the slight chance that may be where your oil is entering the cylinder. And at least hand lap the valves before you reinstall them. Do all your work, especially measurements, with all the parts at room temperature to eliminate thermal expansion from the equation.

I know this sounds like a lot of extra work, but the end result will be so much better and long lasting.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

additives are junk, i dont care what you use, its jut a scam to get you to spend money. oil is oil is oil....period, any additives will only do nothing or harm your engine at best.

That is not correct! All oils have additives! And oil is not oil is not oil!

You take a can of Dino and freeze to -50 deg it becomes solid!

Synthetics pour point at least Amsoils is -60 You dont even want to

talk about Higher temperatures where oils boil away and leave sludge

you will loose that battle too.

Duke

[Curmudgeon 28]

Next time it's -50 in Michigan, I'm getting in my pickup with it's synthetic oil, and moving to Florida.

I ain't a gonna live anywhere oil freezes!!!!!!!!!!!

?

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

Ok, let's bring this back on topic. Is there any recommended additive to help with the smoking?

[rustbucket 4]

um a wee bit off but sort of in line with this. my big white van one or two of you saw at the show the 2000 e-250 has over 198,000 miles on her and is all original. no engine issues at all i keep her that was with regualre oil changes and also when i change the oil i add a thing of engine restore to help with any cylinder wall scratches that may exsist. me my dad my late uncle and late grand fathers all swore by the stuff but only comes in 4 cylinder 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder cans.

all my tractors run military surplus dino glue of the 30W spec from a bit olive drab 5 gallon can. the van shall i say id jiffy lube synthetic.

[rocking 416 1]

i dunno additives mite not be good but the rite amount of dot 3 brake fluid like half a pint maybee a lil more an some wal mart synthtic oil did the trick on my smokey c81 . She puffed so bad i made one pass mowen the lawn an was complety smoked out . so i figured for laughs id try an ole auto auction trick added some brake fluid an sythtic oil an sure enough . Ill let you all know how long it lasts .. honestly how many people on redsquare think i am a butcher??

[Buzz 502]

the rite amount of dot 3 brake fluid like half a pint maybee a lil more an some wal mart synthtic oil did the trick on my smokey c81 . She puffed so bad i made one pass mowen the lawn an was complety smoked out . so i figured for laughs id try an ole auto auction trick added some brake fluid an sythtic oil an sure enough . Ill let you all know how long it lasts .. honestly how many people on redsquare think i am a butcher??

Hmmmm.........verrry interesting. Care to share the exact formula with us professor? I have an 856 i'll probably be selling that sure could use a drink of that.

Do we think you're a butcher.....never, a mad scientist.........perhaps. B)

[rocking 416 1]

I dont think im a mad scientist just started working at an auto auction at a young age , an picked up a few tricks. my c81 if you was at the 2008 show , you should of seen it puff i mean bad, full throttle mowing the lawn i can cut 100 feet i couldent see. so i took some walmart synthetic oil 5w30 an dot 3 brake fluid . drained my oil first over nite so i made sure i tal was out. then put in about 1/4 of the bottle of brake fluid then a lil bit more. then poured in the 5w30 synthetic an wa la no more smoke i can mow with out neighbors calling fire department . I will admit the brake fliud give off a foul odor thru the exaust only down fall. some good atf dextron3 or any grade really mix it with synthetic oil an it dont smell . but what i was tought but a trustworthy used car salesman ( SCARCASIM) was the brake fluid helps to expand piston rings an swell seals but only temp base. an ive worked at shops where cars have just start to smoke an leack oil we would top off with transmission fluid swell seals an expand pistion rings . :imstupid: ok i know some guys are reading this thinking to them selves i am nuts and never want me to work on there stuff i mean come on i got sense of humor gimme some feedback

[kj4kicks 151]

and here I thought we were an honest upstanding bunch of guys....

It looks like the "Restore" product was the best viable suggestion.

That being said, I am going to close this topic before it gets ugly. If Karl wants to re-open it, that's up to him.