Front axle question

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

Anyone know what the hole is for on that tab? Looks like a bolt or some kind of fastener is missing on the front axle pivot pin but didn’t notice a corresponding hole.

 

I pulled the mule drive to work on it when I noticed .The steering is a bit sloppy and thought this may have something to do with that as well as needing tie rods .thx all

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[Pullstart 59,570]

A 5/16” bolt should hold that tab to the frame.  

[Cee245 753]

Yes, It holds the tab to the frame which is also connected to the pin that the axle goes on.  It is 1 part.

 

I'm dealing with the same on my C160. My pin is worn and the steering is sloppy in many other places too. I decided to start with this first. 

 

Maybe we can replace the pivot pin? I'll check if their available and if toro makes them out of gold or not... $$$

Edited July 3, 2022 by Cee245
Add pic

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

29 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

A 5/16” bolt should hold that tab to the frame.  

Thanks.I didn’t notice a hole on the other side.I’ll get in there and take a better look tomorrow.That would definitely allow the pin bounce around a bit without that bolt, Just a C-clip on the other end .

thx 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

10 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

Yes, It holds the tab to the frame which is also connected to the pin that the axle goes on.  It is 1 part.

 

I'm dealing with the same on my C160. My pin is worn and the steering is sloppy in many other places too. I decided to start with this first. 

 

Maybe we can replace the pivot pin? I'll check if their available and if toro makes them out of gold or not... $$$

 

Lol I dont believe they are available but not sure.I have read here of folks making a bushing to take up the play.

Maybe Check  Fleabay,might get lucky  and find NOS dirt cheap🤣

thx 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[Cee245 753]

@Wheelhorse#1

6216 is the part #. It's about $40.00

 

That's not so bad, but it doesn't mean the axle isn't worn.  So a new pin would be futile.  I see a new axle is about 300 so that's not realistic for me. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Cee245

[Cee245 753]

As @Pullstartsays 5/16,  and threads are short, 1/2 in length... as shown in Pic. 

 

Good timing.... I just got done tearing into my front end tonight and seen your post. 

 

Which model are you going to work on @Wheelhorse#1?

 

2nd Pic is of my tear down tonight. I've got a lot of greasing linkages and need some other stuff... not a bad way to spend a Saturday ,night in my book! Lol

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Cee245
Switched pics

[ri702bill 7,276]

8 hours ago, Cee245 said:

That's not so bad, but it doesn't mean the axle isn't worn.  So a new pin would be futile.  I see a new axle is about 300 so that's not realistic for me. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Cee245

That axle is repairable - I have opened up both the pivot and spindles bore for press in bronze bushings. I also machine the lower bosses down to add in a thrust washer, and at the same time compensate for thrust face wear. I've done several with no issues.

 

Lowell at Wheelhorse Parts and more sells the repdoduction axle pivot pins.

[squonk 38,848]

The pins get worn. The tabs break at the weld. The bolt breaks. Happens all the time. These are 50+ year old tractors. We got guys doing wheelies, mud running,hill climbing ect. with these things. I 've replaced a dozen pins. If you have the time and ability to over engineer it great but a new pin will get you up and running. I'm sure this wasn't a close tolerance fit from the factory. You need room in there for some Lucas!

[953 nut 51,541]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

You need room in there for some Lucas!

Now Mike,  you need to let Pete make that comment!             

[wallfish 15,912]

If that tab is not holding the pin in place it will swivel with the axle (larger surface area contact) and wear the pin and the frame holes at the thin surface area contact points front and back. Look at those frame holes for the pin to check if they are wobbled out. If so they can be bushed too. All of the axle holes (pivot and spindles plus the frame holes) can be enlarged from 3/4 to 7/8 and bushed with bronze bushings to make them a nice tighter tolerance again. I don't have access to the precise machinery like 702bill has so I have done them by hand with a 7/8 construction reamer. and a cordless drill. The reamer will not pass all the way through the holes on the axle from a single side. (unless you grind the stop ring off and use an extension) So from experience I found it's best to start one side only drilling the wide part of the reamer into the hole about 1 1/2" or so and don't bury it from the first side of drilling, then drill from the other side until it sinks all the way through. This will better line up the holes. The reamer will ALMOST self align but it's important to align the drill with the hole as straight as possible as you drill. Look inside of that spindle hole and you will see that there's a larger gap in the center than at the ends for holding grease. If you use long bushings be sure to consider the grease fitting. Shorter bushings for each end are easier to find and still leave that grease gap to mimic the original design. After tapping in the bushings, you may need to file or sand the insides of the bushings because of the "squeeze" into those axle holes makes that 3/4 ID a little smaller. You want those bushings tight in the axle so they don't spin, just the pins spin in the bushings.

If you have a bunch of axles to do then it's a big time saver to modify the reamer with an extension for drilling them with one pass from a single side.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

11 hours ago, Cee245 said:

@Wheelhorse#1

6216 is the part #. It's about $40.00

 

That's not so bad, but it doesn't mean the axle isn't worn.  So a new pin would be futile.  I see a new axle is about 300 so that's not realistic for me. 

Cee245 

I’m working on a 73 12 automatic. Straighten out the mule drive,it was bent also replaced the adjust knob.I think the PO must of ran into a tree or something.

Thanks for the part number.Im thinking of going ahead and replace it wile Im there.

 
Im sure the axle is worn some,but I can live with a bit of play,doesn’t really seem too bad.I also need to replace the tie rods for the steering…their shot.

 

 

Not perfect but better then it was.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[peter lena 8,038]

@Wheelhorse#1 , that axel pin set up n needs a bolt for holding it in place , as stated , use a grease that will stay with it , since using the lucas h/d chassis grease , in hi wear areas , the issues stopped . also when you grease the front end , raise it up so grease easily fills all the voids , when building a front axel set up , you can feel the solid smooth ease , that this grease has , most important is that it stays there , went after every trouble / failure area , with this , no noisy bearings , no failures , read the specs . just my experience , keep it greasy , pete  

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

Pete 

You are right.Maint.Is key to keeping these machines going with out too much trouble.

I also found a broken off Grease Zerk,can’t have that! She’s screaming for some Lucas extra sticky HD right about now.Replaced and ready for some lube !

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

If that tab is not holding the pin in place it will swivel with the axle (larger surface area contact) and wear the pin and the frame holes at the thin surface area contact points front and back. Look at those frame holes for the pin to check if they are wobbled out. If so they can be bushed too. All of the axle holes (pivot and spindles plus the frame holes) can be enlarged from 3/4 to 7/8 and bushed with bronze bushings to make them a nice tighter tolerance again. I don't have access to the precise machinery like 702bill has so I have done them by hand with a 7/8 construction reamer. and a cordless drill. The reamer will not pass all the way through the holes on the axle from a single side. (unless you grind the stop ring off and use an extension) So from experience I found it's best to start one side only drilling the wide part of the reamer into the hole about 1 1/2" or so and don't bury it from the first side of drilling, then drill from the other side until it sinks all the way through. This will better line up the holes. The reamer will ALMOST self align but it's important to align the drill with the hole as straight as possible as you drill. Look inside of that spindle hole and you will see that there's a larger gap in the center than at the ends for holding grease. If you use long bushings be sure to consider the grease fitting. Shorter bushings for each end are easier to find and still leave that grease gap to mimic the original design. After tapping in the bushings, you may need to file or sand the insides of the bushings because of the "squeeze" into those axle holes makes that 3/4 ID a little smaller. You want those bushings tight in the axle so they don't spin, just the pins spin in the bushings.

If you have a bunch of axles to do then it's a big time saver to modify the reamer with an extension for drilling them with one pass from a single side.

Wall…Thanks for the know how.I don’t have a machine shop either so this method will work for me.

I was wondering where do you get your Bronze bushings.Mc Master ?

thx 

[wallfish 15,912]

25 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

Wall…Thanks for the know how.I don’t have a machine shop either so this method will work for me.

I was wondering where do you get your Bronze bushings.Mc Master ?

thx 

Many places, Local hardware stores too. Just search 3/4 ID x 7/8 OD bronze bushings. You don't want flanged bushings just sleeve bushings. Longer bushings or many different lengths and sizes can be found here at ASB bearing. 2 1/2" is the longest for 3/4x7/8. Different size reamers and you can bush everything that moves and be a bushwacker! LoL

https://asbbearings.com/pages/cast-bronze-inch-sleeves

 

Wish I had some of the machinery but more importantly the know how and skill to do more precise stuff like Bill and the many other machinest on here! Their trade means precise and accurate tooling with the abilities and skills to know how to use them. But again, these little tractors aren't the space shuttle and only moving at 5-10 mph leaves some wiggle room for some less exact fixes. Is it better to be precise? ABSOLUTELY! Can we get away with some of the backyard fixes? ABSOLUTELY 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by wallfish

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

40 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

Wish I had some of the machinery but more importantly the know how and skill to do more precise stuff like Bill and the many other machinest on here! Their trade means precise and accurate tooling with the abilities and skills to know how to use them. 

 

 

Absolutely ,truth be told.even if I had access to the finest machine shop available.I would have no idea where to start to make it work.My skill or brain level, just aint there .Much respect to those who can.   

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[Cee245 753]

@Wheelhorse#1,

Looks like the guys got you and me covered...  I'm planning on buying a 7/8" construction reamer as @wallfishsays.... they seem to be 40-50 bucks. Also, I looked around and I found a post from @oliver2-44

Mostly same recommendations..

 

Also wondering where to buy the brass or whatever kind of bushing to hammer or press in.. 

**[**edit** if I was paying attention, walling posted a link!]****

 

 

I keep screwing up posting the link, but it's from Feb 3rd. And below is the title....

How do I Setup to Drilling Front  Axle for Spindle Bushings

By oliver2-44

Edited July 3, 2022 by Cee245
Missed info

[Cee245 753]

I measured the axle lengths and the Spindle and center pivot are all 3" in length. 

 

@wallfish, do you get (2)  1.5" bronze Bushings and install from both ends and drill the grease fitting hole?  Gotta give a path for @peter lena's Lucas!!  Works better than others I've used btw!

 

On the axle pivot,,  it'd be a little longer than 3" ... with the mule drive plate there... maybe another half inch... 

[wallfish 15,912]

I was doing all different ways 1" or 1 1/4" bushings from each end for the spindles or 2 pieces the full length with a hole for the grease. Each way had the same result as being good so whatever works for you is best.

2 pieces were always used to span the entire length of the axle pivot hole with a hole drilled for the grease fitting. Cut the extra off and file smooth to the axle edges. Do the frame holes as separate pieces and cut file smooth. Don't do the axle pivot and frame holes as one long piece because you want the axle to pivot on the stationary 3/4 pin. The bushings for the frame holes are only to true up the holes. I didn't ream the frame holes to a complete 7/8 because I wanted a very tight fit for that very small area. Took a bit more sanding with a Dremel to make the 3/4 hole but that way they stay tight in place. 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

Wallfish you are right.Because The bolt was not installed  or fell out  it cause the plate to Waller out on the inside ,the axle boar was slightly worn too at the top as well.Not terribly bad I guess?

I had a one inch bolt and installed it to to see how bad it was worn.

 

Then wear was at the top on both, bottom pic the axle was upside down.You can see the slight wear.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[wallfish 15,912]

3 hours ago, Cee245 said:

I keep screwing up posting the link, but it's from Feb 3rd. And below is the title....

 

[wallfish 15,912]

Just gonna throw this out there in this thread too for another backyard hammer mechanic fix.

I bought one of these tools in order to true up the spindle arm surfaces to the spindle and remove material from the axles to fit trust bearings. I needed to make an attachment for it to be used in a drill but it works pretty good. Again, not an exact precise way to do it but it is a way to do it without expensive machines or paying someone else to do it. 

https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4255&products_id=112529

The 3/4 pin of the spindle keeps it true for doing the steering arm surfaces and then I used a piece of 3/4 rod for doing the axle surfaces. They do turn nice a smooth with those thrust washers in there.

[Handy Don 10,567]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:26 AM, Wheelhorse#1 said:

 

Not perfect but better then it was.

I've recently straightened a bent reinforcing rod on the lower edge of 42" RD deck using a method I learned from a repair shop machinist.

I put some significant tension on the bent part in the direction I want it to move using big "C" clamps (on the front attach-a-matic I'd use two clamps near the center of the rod to a plate straddling the bottom). Then I give a couple three or four very-not-gentle whacks directly on the bent part with a 4 lb sledge. As the part "unbends" continue tightening the clamps lest they loosen and fall on your foot. Where there isn't space between the clamps to hit, I use a fat piece of bar stock with a bit of a notch ground across the face to distribute the force on the target piece.

Continue the whack-tighten sequence until the bend is just past straight (maybe a 32nd inch for a short thick rod like this). When the clamps are removed it'll spring back to straight.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,445]

Great tip.Will give this a shot the rest of the way..thx