Questions About HH100 Engine On Raider 9

[tntatro 168]

Any suggestions for getting this roll pin out. The steering wheel broke off and this pin is rusted in. I'm thinking about cutting the ends off and re drilling the hole.

[Handy Don 10,594]

Roll pins are exceedingly hard spring steel. Most likely you'll either ruin your drill bit or else have the bit go off the the side and drill the much softer steering shaft. Even cutting one off can be tough of a saw (I'd use a cutoff wheel, myself).

 

This is one of the really tough WH repairs, especially because it's difficult to properly support the shaft while pounding on the pin.

I got one by clamping the steering shaft to a 2x4 brace that I had bracketed to a sturdy wall and then using a roll pin punch after lots of heat and penetrant.

Some members have cut the steering shaft, dealt with the pin/steering wheel with it off the tractor, and then re-welded the shaft.

Some give up and seek a replacement.

[tntatro 168]

9 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Roll pins are exceedingly hard spring steel. Most likely you'll either ruin your drill bit or else have the bit go off the the side and drill the much softer steering shaft. Even cutting one off can be tough of a saw (I'd use a cutoff wheel, myself).

 

This is one of the really tough WH repairs, especially because it's difficult to properly support the shaft while pounding on the pin.

I got one by clamping the steering shaft to a 2x4 brace that I had bracketed to a sturdy wall and then using a roll pin punch after lots of heat and penetrant.

Some members have cut the steering shaft, dealt with the pin/steering wheel with it off the tractor, and then re-welded the shaft.

Some give up and seek a replacement.

Thanks for the reply. I had already broke a small drill bit. I first ran one throught the center and the idea was to gradually go bigger. It didn' work. I might just try to apoxy and clamp the broken steering wheel back on. It's cracked in three places but the circle and supports are still intact. I can pull it apart enough to put apoxy in and get it back over the pin. I can probably file it off round at the bottom and put a hose clamp on also. There was a hose clamp there when I got it but the taper made it slide off.

[tntatro 168]

I got the new pins installed but unfortunately there is still no spark. I checked the connection at the boot also but I don't think there is a problem there. I guess for now I'm going to focus on the B80. After that one is going I may pull the head off the Tecumseh and see how much wear there is in the bore and go from there. If the bore is good then maybe I'll try a modified ignition.

[Handy Don 10,594]

13 hours ago, tntatro said:

I got the new pins installed but unfortunately there is still no spark.

Nice job on the pins. Bummed at no spark.

I'll give this some thought.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

12 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Nice job on the pins. Bummed at no spark.

I'll give this some thought.

@tntatro

 

Wondering how fast the engine was turning?

What depth the pins are at?

 

[tntatro 168]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@tntatro

 

Wondering how fast the engine was turning?

What depth the pins are at?

 

The instructions with the pins said to press them all the way in to the shoulders. I measured the long one and it was 1/4" to the shoulder. I set the gap about .008".

 

I used a cordess drill to turn it over and it seemed to turn it over pretty fast without the spark plug in. With the plug in it turned over pretty good also.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

12 minutes ago, tntatro said:

The instructions with the pins said to press them all the way in to the shoulders. I measured the long one and it was 1/4" to the shoulder. I set the gap about .008".

 

I used a cordess drill to turn it over and it seemed to turn it over pretty fast without the spark plug in. With the plug in it turned over pretty good also.

 

I don't have the specs happy or I'd be happy to quote them.

The engine needs to be turning over anywhere from 90 RPM to 400 RPM depending on the set of the pin depth and Gap.

My experience with drills turning engines over does not get them up to 300 or 400 RPM but I'm not using your drill.

It's possible that may be worth taking the time to set that engine up so that it turns on its own starter which should get you somewhere between 250 RPM and 400 RPM.

[tntatro 168]

24 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I don't have the specs happy or I'd be happy to quote them.

The engine needs to be turning over anywhere from 90 RPM to 400 RPM depending on the set of the pin depth and Gap.

My experience with drills turning engines over does not get them up to 300 or 400 RPM but I'm not using your drill.

It's possible that may be worth taking the time to set that engine up so that it turns on its own starter which should get you somewhere between 250 RPM and 400 RPM.

I'm pretty much judging the speed by comparing it to starting my other tractors. I'll try it with the starter and see if it sparks that way. 

[tntatro 168]

I hooked up the starter to a battery and still no spark. I measured the length of the pins and the long one is a hair over 3/16", the short on is about 1/8". I think the manual said the long one should be 1/4" and I forget what the short one was supposed to be.

[tntatro 168]

Here's the instructions that came with the pins.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

1 hour ago, tntatro said:

I hooked up the starter to a battery and still no spark. I measured the length of the pins and the long one is a hair over 3/16", the short on is about 1/8". I think the manual said the long one should be 1/4" and I forget what the short one was supposed to be.

Seems reasonable. 

 

Check the manual for proper Air Gap settings and confirm that. 

It definitely matters. 

 

 

[tntatro 168]

8 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Seems reasonable. 

 

Check the manual for proper Air Gap settings and confirm that. 

It definitely matters. 

 

 

The air gap should be between .006" to .010".

Edited May 15, 2022 by tntatro

[Handy Don 10,594]

2 hours ago, tntatro said:

The air gap should be between .006" to .010".

@ebinmaine thanks for chipping in, I've been committed elsewhere today.  @tntatro, you have the docs I planned to look for that specify the gaps and pin heights and it looks like you have those dialed in. As you might have surmised, it isn't the actual heights that are critical but rather the difference in the heights of the two pins and the gap from the higher pin to the sensor.

 

I think the manual that has the gap setting also describes how to check that the sensor is picking up the high pin to release the spark when the engine is at the cranking speed.

 

Are you using a spark tester to look for the spark? I've had mixed result with the "lay the spark plug on the block and look for the spark" method. A tester is more certain for accuracy. And yes, it expects to be turning at 300-400 to get a spark.

 

As you've probably discovered, the sensors are hard to come by and pricey for this system. @ebinmaine's suggestion to connect with Ed Stoller on other options is a good idea.

 

Hope you can save it!

[ebinmaine 63,099]

I have @Ed Stoller 's contact information if you need it.  

[tntatro 168]

41 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

@ebinmaine thanks for chipping in, I've been committed elsewhere today.  @tntatro, you have the docs I planned to look for that specify the gaps and pin heights and it looks like you have those dialed in. As you might have surmised, it isn't the actual heights that are critical but rather the difference in the heights of the two pins and the gap from the higher pin to the sensor.

 

I think the manual that has the gap setting also describes how to check that the sensor is picking up the high pin to release the spark when the engine is at the cranking speed.

 

Are you using a spark tester to look for the spark? I've had mixed result with the "lay the spark plug on the block and look for the spark" method. A tester is more certain for accuracy. And yes, it expects to be turning at 300-400 to get a spark.

 

As you've probably discovered, the sensors are hard to come by and pricey for this system. @ebinmaine's suggestion to connect with Ed Stoller on other options is a good idea.

 

Hope you can save it!

I don't have a spark tester so I have been laying it on the block or I put the plug in and hold the end of the plug wire close to the spark plug.

 

I should have parts in for the B80 tomorrow or Tuesday so I'm going to focus on getting that one going. It really doesn't need much. The Raider 9 needs a bit of work.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

1 hour ago, tntatro said:

I don't have a spark tester so I have been laying it on the block or I put the plug in and hold the end of the plug wire close to the spark plug.

 

I should have parts in for the B80 tomorrow or Tuesday so I'm going to focus on getting that one going. It really doesn't need much. The Raider 9 needs a bit of work.

I've had close to no luck over the years using the methods above. 

A spark tester can be had for cheap online.  

 

Do you have a thread for the B80?

 

[tntatro 168]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I've had close to no luck over the years using the methods above. 

A spark tester can be had for cheap online.  

 

Do you have a thread for the B80?

 

I'll consider getting a spark tester. I've always just grounded the plug to the block with both chainsaws and mowers.

 

I don't have a thread for the B80. Other than the weathered look it seems to be in decent shape. I had to replace the valves, clean the points, replace the coil and condenser, flatten the cylinder head and get a new gasket. I also put in a brake lining and new transmission oil seals. Other than that it needs a fuel filter and air filter. If it still spits gas out the carburetor I'll have figure that out. I'll also need to fix the steering wheel. Someone had replaced the fuel lines, drive belt and rebuilt the carburetor. Maybe they gave up on it after that but it needed valve work. It even came with a clevis hitch, but no deck. It also needed a spacer for the mule drive, the guard and the flanged nut. I have a spacer and guard so I just need the nut. I also have an extra 36" deck. The front tires were pretty rough but I had good tires on rims and the rear tires needed new valve stems. Unfortunately the previous owner towed them out with flat tires and ruined some of the tires. One rear tire needed ten plugs and one of the front tire tubes needed ten patches. I have both tractors with tires that hold air now except a rear tire on each one has slow leaks on the sidewall from dry rot but they hold for more than a week.

[tntatro 168]

As far as the B-80, my gasket didn't come in. I think the post office lost it. I went to Autozone and got some of that copper adhesive spray and used the old gasket. It starts right up and idles fine but anything mid to high rpm will fluctuate up and down in rpm. The carb was no longer spitting gas though. I decided to soak the carb overnight in acetone. I'll also have to double check the governor. It seems to have been over torqued at some point so I really have to crank it tight to keep it from slipping on the shaft. 

 

I'm going to be getting a spark tester maybe tomorrow. Depending on how the B-80 goes I might take the head off the Tecumseh and measure the bore to get an idea of how much wear it has if the spark tester shows no spark.

[tntatro 168]

I tested the HH100 with a spark tester and still no spark. I didn't have time to check the bore.

 

The carburetor on the B-80 needed a throttle shaft bushing but all I had to use was rubber so I made a rubber bushing and it runs good now except the throttle cable clamp keeps slipping. I don't know if the rubber will hold up for the bushing though. 

[Bucks 31]

I also recently have a Raider 9 with the tecumseh hh100 engine. mine will start with a shot of carb spray,but my mechanical fuel pump is bad and i am waiting on anew electric one. a local toro dealer had the correct air filter and spark plug. I also have been debating whether to keep or part with this machine. getting close to retiring and think ill keep it. the guys are great on this forum and truly seem to preserving these machines  and I'm catching the fever too. Raider 9s were only made  I believe , one year. Why ????   But it sure makes em rare!  I love the simplicity of these tractors despite the difficulty in tracking down parts.  I will tracking down parts until i get this machine running again   if i can help you find something reach out to me. good luck!  The B at the end of your Engine # is not listed in some files of tecumseh engine. it signifies it is i think oem Wheelhouse 1968 Raider 9

 

[tntatro 168]

13 hours ago, Bucks said:

I also recently have a Raider 9 with the tecumseh hh100 engine. mine will start with a shot of carb spray,but my mechanical fuel pump is bad and i am waiting on anew electric one. a local toro dealer had the correct air filter and spark plug. I also have been debating whether to keep or part with this machine. getting close to retiring and think ill keep it. the guys are great on this forum and truly seem to preserving these machines  and I'm catching the fever too. Raider 9s were only made  I believe , one year. Why ????   But it sure makes em rare!  I love the simplicity of these tractors despite the difficulty in tracking down parts.  I will tracking down parts until i get this machine running again   if i can help you find something reach out to me. good luck!  The B at the end of your Engine # is not listed in some files of tecumseh engine. it signifies it is i think oem Wheelhouse 1968 Raider 9

 

I'm going to be moving within a couple months so I won't be putting as much focus on my Wheel Horses for now. 

 

For the Raider 9 I think I'll put on a K301 and add a solenoid. I would put a K181 on but I would have to find a shaft that would fit the smaller engine that holds the PTO lever.

 

The B-80 that I've been working on keeps giving me little problems. I was hoping to have it fixed to sell but now the throttle keeps sticking due to the governor bushing I believe and the engine uses a lot of oil even though it doesn't seem to smoke too bad. If I torque the bushing to spec when cold it works fine but after it gets hot it sticks. I don't know if it sticks and runs hot and burns more oil or maybe something else is causing it to run hot, burn oil and cause the bushing to stick.

[oliver2-44 8,852]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:48 PM, tntatro said:

Any suggestions for getting this roll pin out. The steering wheel broke off and this pin is rusted in. I'm thinking about cutting the ends off and re drilling the hole.

On 5/14/2022 at 6:23 PM, tntatro said:

I might just try to apoxy and clamp the broken steering wheel back on. It's cracked in three places but the circle and supports are still intact. I can pull it apart enough to put apoxy in and get it back over the pin. I can probably file it off round at the bottom and put a hose clamp on also. There was a hose clamp there when I got it but the taper made it slide off.

 My C81 steering wheel was cracked at the hub similar to yours when I got it. I learned on here to use a carbide glass bit to drill the roll pin out. Found one at HD. I sandblasted the hub steel piece and epoxied it back together with JB weld. Still holding several years later. You can add a little black spray paint to the epoxy if you want to hide the repair even more. 

[tntatro 168]

Just now, oliver2-44 said:

 My C81 steering wheel was cracked at the hub similar to yours when I got it. I learned on here to use a carbide glass bit to drill the roll pin out. Found one at HD. I sandblasted the hub steel piece and epoxied it back together with JB weld. Still holding several years later. You can add a little black spray paint to the epoxy if you want to hide the repair even more. 

I ended up leaving the pin in and glued the steering wheel back on. I also filed the base of the steering wheel to take out the taper and put a hose clamp on.