Tractor lift options for BBT?

[AMC RULES 36,945]

 

[Handy Don 10,594]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

For the chain falls bracket fastening, I think I've come up with a good solution.
A 2x6 board above the 10' long rail will be 12' long so I can grab an extra joist.
Three 4" long (#10 deck screws or 1/4" lags) in every joist.
Then, to hang the rail I'll use five total brackets with bolts that go through the 2x6. 

 

The deck screws should have a real-world pull out of somewhere above 600 lb each.

That should give me a pretty fair safety margin for lifting several hundred pounds.

This looks promising to me, for sure. Especially for being able to relocate a lifted object. When I transferred an engine between chassis I had to lift the engine then swap the chassis!

So if I'm understanding your description, the rail bolts/lags to the 2x6 which, in turn, screws/lags to the floor joists above. Are there more of the brackets that are at the end of the rail? Is that how the rail gets attached all the way along?

Deck screws are really strong but they are brittle, so they shouldn't be used in contact with metal fittings or even washers -- they are wood-to-wood fasteners (lags are engineered for metal contact). I've become partial to Timberlock and ledger lock (sp?) screws for structural framing assembly where movement or vibration are involved, especially where redundancy isn't practical. The are pricey but often fewer are needed, too.

 

If it's possible to use bolts through the "top" of the rail, I'd even consider using short pieces of angle Iron bolted horizontally midway up the height of each joist as hangers and then suspending the rail from the angle iron with long bolts at least ⅜" diameter. This would let you snug the rail right up to the bottom of the joists and by using bolts everywhere, you avoid relying on screws in wood.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 63,103]

5 hours ago, Handy Don said:

So if I'm understanding your description, the rail bolts/lags to the 2x6 which, in turn, screws/lags to the floor joists above. 

CLOSE. SEE THE CLOSE UP PIC BELOW. 

 

 

Are there more of the brackets that are at the end of the rail?

THERE WILL BE 5 BRACKETS OVER A 10 FOOT SPAN. 

 

Is that how the rail gets attached all the way along?

YES. 

 

Quote

Deck screws are really strong but they are brittle, so they shouldn't be used in contact with metal fittings or even washers -- they are wood-to-wood fasteners (lags are engineered for metal contact).

Good info. I'll just go with the ¼" lags. 

 

The ¼" lag bolts will hold the horizontal board to the joists.

Then each bracket will have a ½" bolt going up through it and through the horizontal board. 

(The lag bolt that the BLUE arrow is pointing to right now would be changed to a through bolt with wide washers and a lock nut.)

 

 

There's a hole on each side that the RED arrow is pointing to. There will be a bolt going all the way through which snugs the bracket side to side and keeps the rail in place.

 

 

[Handy Don 10,594]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

The ¼" lag bolts will hold the horizontal board to the joists.

Then each bracket will have a ½" bolt going up through it and through the horizontal board. 

(The lag bolt that the BLUE arrow is pointing to right now would be changed to a through bolt with wide washers and a lock nut.)

There's a hole on each side that the RED arrow is pointing to. There will be a bolt going all the way through which snugs the bracket side to side and keeps the rail in place.

 

 

Thanks, now I can picture what you're thinking.

So the 5 brackets will be at the ends and spaced ~30" apart in between. I really like how the bracket and rail work--clever to include the "clamp the rail action." Is there a bolt sideways through the rail to keep the traveler from falling out?

Bottom line for me is discomfort at having the lag bolts going up into the joists. Where heavy loads are involved, especially with possible vibration, I try to make the fasteners be perpendicular to the force--akin to hanging pictures from nails in the wall and rather than in the ceiling.  

 

I'm showing ⅜" shoulder bolts through a piece of angle iron but these could also be 1" or 1 ¼" lags. Bolts would be tight so that friction of the angle iron against the joist is holding a lot of the weight. Nut on the bolt holding the hangar is flanged.

The clear issue with this is that the spacing for 5 brackets couldn't be a neat division using the 16" joist spaces, but you could put the hangers on opposite sides of the alternate joists, if that helped.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 63,103]

12 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Thanks, now I can picture what you're thinking.

So the 5 brackets will be at the ends and spaced ~30" apart in between. I really like how the bracket and rail work--clever to include the "clamp the rail action." Is there a bolt sideways through the rail to keep the traveler from falling out?

Bottom line for me is discomfort at having the lag bolts in going up into the joists. Where heavy loads are involved I try to make the fasteners be perpendicular to the force--akin to hanging pictures from nails in the wall and rather than in the ceiling.  

 

I'm showing ⅜" shoulder bolts through a piece of angle iron but these could also be 1" or 1 ¼" lags. Bolts would be tight so that friction of the angle iron against the joist is holding a lot of the weight. Nut bolt holding the hangar is flanged.

 

 

 

Picture isn't visible but I know what you mean.  

 

There will be either a bolt or clamp at the ends to prevent the trolley falling out.  

 

As to the brackets I agree in principle but couldn't find any structural L brackets for less than a king's ransom. 

 

The trolley I have is rated at 600 lbs carrying capacity while moving up to 30 feet per minute. I'll be holding still for the most part.  

 

 

I'm looking for a capacity of about 650 lbs MAX. to lift a whole tractor.  

 

According to online charts a 1/4" lag in northern (spruce/pine/fir) KD lumber  should have a pull-out resistance of some over 200 lbs per inch of thread. 

A 4" lag should have 2.25, 2.5" of thread so each bolt should be capable of holding well over 400 lbs. 

I'll have 3 bolts per joist, 10 joists. 

If the load is hung directly from one joist I should easily be able to hold 1200 lbs or more. I'm being conservative on purpose. 

If I span 2 joists obviously that doubles.  

 

The way I'm hanging the 5 brackets I'll ALWAYS be spanning 2 joists. 

 

My holding capacity should be at least 2000 lbs.  Again, conservative on purpose.  

 

 

 

If you see any points I'm missing or outright holes in my work please do let me know.  

 

[Handy Don 10,594]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

If you see any points I'm missing or outright holes in my work please do let me know.  

No gaps or holes. At the loads you are citing, cleanly installed lags will work (proper pilot holes a bit deeper than the bolt length). Put it on your calendar to check their tightness after each heating season, to counter any expansion and contraction of the wood with the heat and humidity. The most I've ever hung from a single vertically mounted lag was about 130 or so on a 5/16 lag embedded 4" into a 4x4 and I never got under it.

 

Not sure why the image didn't come through--trying again.  This is angle you could cut from a "totaled" WH frame (bed frame isn't thick enough and would bend).

to get the "last foot" of the 10' rail, an angle spanning the gap between hangers on adjacent joists would work. You are fortunate that the direction you want the rail to be in is perpendicular to the floor joists!

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Handy Don

[oliver2-44 8,852]

I have a setup similar to what Don described. My shop had a 12’ x 26 ft outside covered area. It’s ceiling is the floor for an upstairs loft room so the ceiling/floor has 2x12 joist on 24” centers courtesy of a salvage opportunity.

there are 2 rows of bolts sticking through the ceiling in the above photo.  I use the same “barn door” rail @ebinmaine has pictured and the bolts fasten the rail to the ceiling. The bolt screws into a long coupling nut that has been welded to a metal plate that is bolted to the joist. 

I currently don’t have a rail up as I had suspended a Jet Ski up with straps from 4 bolts to do some bottom work. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

I have trained my tractors to levitate…

[ebinmaine 63,103]

2 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

I have trained my tractors to levitate…

 

I wasn't aware that was an option. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Will this work for other equipment or is it a tractor only piece of wizardry?

 

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I wasn't aware that was an option. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Will this work for other equipment or is it a tractor only piece of wizardry?

 

Works best on any equipment with large diameter tires…

[c-series don 7,796]

@ebinmaineI bought a harbor freight motorcycle lift table and made a larger top for it. I forgot how much I paid for it but I think it was around 500 bucks? This thing is a dream for working on tractors! No more kneeling on concrete. I would highly recommend this. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by c-series don

[ebinmaine 63,103]

2 hours ago, c-series don said:

@ebinmaineI ******

 

This thing is a dream for working on tractors! 

 

 

Not familiar with the above pictured model.  

Any help with identification here??

 

 

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Looks like it would work well for dog grooming too !

[c-series don 7,796]

That model is a 2017 Lucy, springer spaniel !!! Wasn’t supposed to be “my dog” but she decided otherwise and now apparently we are joined at the hip😂

[ebinmaine 63,103]

4 minutes ago, c-series don said:

Wasn’t supposed to be “my dog” but she decided otherwise

Funny how that works out ain't it???

[c-series don 7,796]

It is funny because after my last dog I said I wasn’t getting another one. Wife and daughters decided otherwise. Now I have another best friend!! 

[ebinmaine 63,103]

1 minute ago, c-series don said:

It is funny because after my last dog I said I wasn’t getting another one. Wife and daughters decided otherwise. Now I have another best friend!! 

My maternal grandfather said the same thing at least twice in his 60s and 70s. 

He also got new dogs both times. 

 

😂😂😂

[squonk 38,913]

That HF lift Don has must have been a good one. The same model I bought was junk. After going up once, it wouldn't have picked up the dog.

[oliver2-44 8,852]

@ebinmaine Have you considered using Unistruit (Electrical Supply houses carry it ) for you beam rail.  Scroll down and see weight loading chart in this link.  It has a 1690lb max load rating when mounted on 24" centers. it is 12 gage steel verses the barn door track is 16 gage steel.  I haven't priced in a long time, but it may be priced competitive to barn door track.   https://www.unistrut.us/product-details/p1000  We used it for all kinds of conduit, cable tray and pipe support structures at the power plants. 

 

Unitstruit has "their brand of trolley products https://www.unistrut.us/search?keyword=trolley

 

The Jungle carries some aftermarket trolley products.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JFDH39G/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOERMOVkzOElPOVg5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTMyMzY2VkpZNjdBVFNXRzJCJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5NDQyOTMzR0pBSzVVMkUxVDVKJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsMiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

 

Here's an interesting "bridge Crane" ideas.  This is a "someday reason I installed 2 rows of rail mounting bolts on my workshop patio ceiling 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JFDH39G/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOERMOVkzOElPOVg5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTMyMzY2VkpZNjdBVFNXRzJCJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5NDQyOTMzR0pBSzVVMkUxVDVKJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsMiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

[ebinmaine 63,103]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

 Have you considered using Unistruit ******* for you beam rail

 

Great minds think alike. 

That is in fact a piece of unistrut. 

 

 

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

"bridge Crane" ideas

 

That's something I've thought about doing. 

Pretty expensive to set up against consideration of our needs but boy would it be handy.  

 

[dodgecharger 33]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:10 AM, c-series don said:

@ebinmaineI bought a harbor freight motorcycle lift table and made a larger top for it. I forgot how much I paid for it but I think it was around 500 bucks? This thing is a dream for working on tractors! No more kneeling on concrete. I would highly recommend this. 

Man, that is one good looking tractor. 

[Rob J. 1,940]

On 2/11/2022 at 5:27 PM, Achto said:

I use a motor cycle lift to work on my tractors. I made the extension block that you see on top for 2 reasons. 1 - 3" of extra height. 2 - It's only 1/4" wider than the frame on each side. This allows you to assemble the whole tractor while it is on the lift, even the belt guard. The tabs on top fit inside of the frame and keep the tractor from from sliding off side to side. The tabs on the bottom keep the extension from sliding off of the lift. Comfortable height to sit on a shop stool & work on the tractor. Don't take up much room either.

 

Is that 2x2 square tube? 

[Achto 26,548]

1 minute ago, Rob J. said:

Is that 2x2 square tube? 

 

3x3 tube.

[ebinmaine 63,103]

Knowing we're going to be keeping the basement workshop up n running for at least this winter I decided to finish up the mounting system for the chain falls.  

I just need to pop in the cross bolts to pinch the brackets. 

 

@peter lena would be happy to know I lubed up the rollers in the trolley.  

 

Works excellent!!

 

 

 

 

 

[sjoemie himself 2,918]

My respect for having that much trust in wood and screws 

 

It looks good but I gotta ask. Are you comfortable with hanging a tractor on that rail?