What do you see ahead for E-GTs?

[roadapples 6,981]

1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 fewer and fewer teens getting licensed right when they are eligible… 

That might be a good thing. I know I didn't have enough sense to be driving when I was 16...

[Erv Troyer 16]

20 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

My new to me E 141 is initially very impressive… lots of torque and quiet… perfect for pulling my train (I think)… but I will need to replace / upgrade 3 - 6 batteries in future… we’ll see how that goes… you can run an awful lot of gas through a 8-10 hp Kohler for the price of 3-6 batteries…

 

The two batteries under the seat in your E 141 were picked up from a local wrecking yard for $45 each - not too bad, I thought. They test them to make sure they are good, and they seemed to be OK in the short time I got to use them. I do believe you have a good point comparing battery cost to buying gas for an engine driven tractor. My last set of batteries for my New Idea EGT 120 cost $700, and should last 8-10 years or more if I take good care of them. But I still like using battery powered equipment because of the other advantages - quiet, easier to repair (if you know electrical troubleshooting), etc. 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 24,116]

Good points!

 

At $700 that you paid for batteries, with local gas prices, I could buy about 230 gallons of regular or 160 gallons of rec gas… I expect my battery costs will be similar…and this does not include electricity costs and time lost charging etc… often not discussed issues in the rush to ev’s…

 

 

[953 nut 51,627]

Hay,     aren't we wandering away from the topic of this thread.  I don't know if the market for a true garden tractor even exists to say anything about an electric garden tractor. There isn't much out there that fill the gap between a riding mower and a sub-compact tractor.

My sister-in-law has a 30" Ryobi battery powered riding mower. For her small yard it is the right size though it cost three times what a small gas rider would. Granted, there are no oil changes or tune-ups needed but it would take a lot of servicing to offset the price difference. They advertise it as having the ability to mow (up tp) one acre per charge and clime it will operate for one hour, didn't say if that is an hour of mowing or just riding around. 

I'm of the same thought as Jay @roadapples, at 76 years of age I'm sure my s will outlast my days of operating them.   

[SylvanLakeWH 24,116]

I think it’s important to look at costs related to this topic… As a new owner of one of the quite rare electric (battery) ‘s, I think it important to pass on the realities of owning one. That includes the good, the bad and the ugly… I will be curious to see how this old gal performs and I am thrilled that @Erv Troyer is tagging along, as he was the guy who got this one up and running again…! 
 

But to your off topic point, I will be posting my E 141 specific stuff in my own thread …

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by SylvanLakeWH

[Handy Don 10,586]

I think I agree that it isn't looking promising for a general purpose e-GT like WHs for the same reason there isn't a large market now for newer gas-powered ones.

 

The market is increasingly narrow and cost sensitive as more homeowners contract out their lawn care and snow clearing and fewer garden intensely. In my neighborhood, I can contract mowing for my ⅓ acre for a flat $500 per year and blowing for $350-ish. A new machine (or machines) of 6-year-life quality? I'd guess it (they) would cost $5,000 and then add maintenance, time, gas, storage, etc. It starts to look break even to me not counting the capital outlay. Yes there will be holdouts, but fewer and fewer of us! Heck, my wife and I are discussing converting ⅔ of our "lawn" to meadow to be mowed only once a year.

 

Lawncare companies already skip tractors. They want the mostly purpose-built and far more efficient tools like an electric ZT or stand-on. This Toro line impresses me as heading in the right direction to capture a lot of share with their sharp focus thinking. The gas-powered models sold well, and I think the electric ones will do even better.

https://www.toro.com/en/professional-contractor/commercial-mowers/grandstand-stand-on-mower-18562

 

There are adverts in my local CL by owners of SCUTS who'll come to me and do plowing, brush hogging, tilling, or other services for $150 per work hour and $100 for travel time.

[Achto 26,545]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

Granted, there are no oil changes or tune-ups needed but it would take a lot of servicing to offset the price difference.

 

No oil changes but there is the inevitable battery changes. For example @SylvanLakeWH's new E141 takes 6 batteries at roughly $150 each. These batteries have about a 6yr life expectancy.

 

Not sure what the price or life is on the lipo's

[SylvanLakeWH 24,116]

11 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

No oil changes but there is the inevitable battery changes. For example @SylvanLakeWH's new E141 takes 6 batteries at roughly $150 each. These batteries have about a 6yr life expectancy.

Thats why I plan to run 3 as I am only pulling my train up and down the street… we’ll see how that goes… learning curve for me… will pass on thoughts as I go…

[Handy Don 10,586]

Sorry, forgot to add a link to the "leaf plow" that I suspect will become very practical as more areas ban blowers over the next few years.

This is on their gas model, but electric will use the same implements.

@Pullstart could whip one of these up in a couple hours from his "materials storage".

https://www.toro.com/en/professional-contractor/commercial-mowers/grandstand-multi-force-leaf-plow-78697

[Skipper 1,788]

EV batteries now in the start of production has a 10 year 90% life left warranty on them. And they are only getting better for every day that passes. Days of the crappy Nissan leaf batteries are soon just history 

 

If someone wanted to, they could easily make a good reliable GT, with very long lasting batteries, long run time and relatively shot charge cycle. Heck, if you wanted, I am sure you could convert a gas horse. wouldn't be as effective as a purpose build, but could be done I'm sure.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Skipper

[edgro 676]

Of course then someone is going to put their portable gas generator in their trailer to pull along and extend the range of the Emower. Kind of like using a diesel generator to power an Ecar charging station

[Handy Don 10,586]

33 minutes ago, edgro said:

Of course then someone is going to put their portable gas generator in their trailer to pull along and extend the range of the Emower. Kind of like using a diesel generator to power an Ecar charging station

Yep, there will be a lot of makeshift and cobbled together responses over the next few years.

But remember the GM Volt? An electric car that carried its own generator.

 

43 minutes ago, Skipper said:

EV batteries now in the start of production has a 10 year 90% life left warranty on them. And they are only getting better for every day that passes. Days of the crappy Nissan leaf batteries are soon just history

I am frankly counting on this by trying to hold onto my current gas vehicle for another year or two so I don't have to be in the "pay a premium" or "guinea pig" classes of buyers for an electric. Some of the announced but not yet in production stuff looks interesting, both from startups and the established brands. Fingers crossed.

 

I agree that you could replace the Eaton 1100 on any hydro with a suitable electric motor plus with some clever electronics and software and then devote the gas tank and under-hood space to batteries. The latest EV motors are amazingly compact, for example. But the companies with that ability are focused elsewhere (and it it beyond the skills of most of us garage mechanics to acquire the components and build such a machine).

 

So, still, despite the possibilities, I just don't see the e-GT equivalent of a WH, Simplicity, Cadet, Economy, Bolens, etc. coming to market any time soon. Sigh.

[SylvanLakeWH 24,116]

 

19 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

I agree that you could replace the Eaton 1100 on any hydro with a suitable electric motor plus with some clever electronics and software and then devote the gas tank and under-hood space to batteries. The latest EV motors are amazingly compact, for example. But the companies with that ability are focused elsewhere (and it it beyond the skills of most of us garage mechanics to acquire the components and build such a machine).

Interesting tidbit on the E 141… Unlike golf carts and other battery powered stuff, the motor simply runs when “on” and you use the standard clutch / gear system found on all other WH manual transmission tractors… simple conversion from gas to electric from that standpoint when WH did it… of course not as efficient, but easy to convert… the frame, transmission, steering etc is exactly the same as my C 105 and C 85… only difference is the hood and 1” front spindles (to accommodate battery size and weight I’m told)…

[Stormin 9,975]

  All this electric this, that and t'other is all very well. And I know that fossil fuel will eventually run out. But where is all this electric going to come from? I don't think I'll ever see the answer to that question at 74.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Stormin

[RandyLittrell 3,827]

On 11/1/2021 at 7:37 PM, roadapples said:

driving when I was 16...

I grew up in western Kansas, had my permit at 14 and drove to school in 8th grade. 76 chevy 4x4 with a 400 small block!! Good ol' days!! 

 

 

 

Randy

[Handy Don 10,586]

On 11/2/2021 at 3:28 PM, Stormin said:

  All this electric this, that and t'other is all very well. And I know that fossil fuel will eventually run out. But where is all this electric going to come from? I don't think I'll ever see the answer to that question at 74.

I could suggest a long reading list, but will instead say only IMHO...

 

Fossil (until it runs out or until the pain reaches unacceptable levels in developed countries high enough to offset the many vested interests)

Solar + batteries

Wind + batteries

And, remotely possibly, the return of new-design, small-scale nuclear reactors (the UK seems poised to approve construction of one)

I use "batteries" generically as a placeholder for "energy storage" either concentrated or distributed on a large scale.

 

I posted this podcast series in another topic but I am finding it insightful on the state of lithium-ion battery futures--technology yes, plus also the impacts on land, water, air, indigenous people and other populations, governments, laws, as well as "who wins and who loses" and "will we see it in time?"

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/how-we-survive/

 

Spoiler Alert: So far, no happy ending.

 

 

[wh500special 2,053]

As I’m sure you all would guess, I could write pages to respond to Don’s original question.  
 

But I won’t. 
 

For now 😊 

 

However, in regards to the “they ought to standardize the charger plugs for electric cars” comment:  they do. 
 

almost all non-Tesla EV’s use exclusively the SAE J-1772 connection.  It’s good for both 120V (level 1) and 240v (level 2) charging up to about 19 kW.  About 80 amps. 
 

There are also high voltage DC fast charging plugs and an older one called CHAdeMO that isn’t common.  
 

Tesla foots the bill tor their charging network so has a proprietary plug.  There are adapters to switch around.  And even though Teslas have their own plug, they can also slow charge on the J-1772. 
 

Contrary to what I assumed, the charger is actually built in to the EV.  The charging cord and plug is known as an EVSE (electric vehicle service equipment).  When you plug in, the onboard charger looks at the EVSE to see what voltage it’s connected to and what its max current can be.  The physical thing you plug into at the charging station or in your garage isn’t much more complicated than an extension cord with a built in current limiter. 
 

When I first started thinking about EV’s I tied my emotions and opinions to my perception of their practicality.  The more I consider them the more they make sense for all but the outlier cases.  
 

This is America.  We attach a lot of emotion and contingency plans to our auto purchases.  
 

we do the same for GT’s. 
 

I’ve long wanted an E-tractor.  It’s a vehicle that never leaves my yard and would never need gas.  One of these days…

 

steve 

Edited November 9, 2021 by wh500special

[Handy Don 10,586]

20 minutes ago, wh500special said:

I’ve long wanted an E-tractor.  It’s a vehicle that never leaves my yard and would never need gas.  One of these days…

Important perspective, thanks. The Cub and Husqvarna products that are now available are getting reasonable reviews. Don't mistake these for overbuilt WH tractors--they are engineered to do only what they claim to do, however, the cost of extra weight or capacity is just too high. Still, if they sell, they will help move the needle on acceptance and encourage manufacturers to continue working on product improvements. (As a side note, Ford is now selling a 281 hp electric motor as a "crate engine"!)

 

21 minutes ago, wh500special said:

When I first started thinking about EV’s I tied my emotions and opinions to my perception of their practicality.  The more I consider them the more they make sense for all but the outlier cases.  

I initially wanted one just to be on the "bleeding edge" but "perceived" practicality (and, yes, cost) held me back. Now I can see how I could fit it into my way of life and I cheering them all on with "ok, people, start manufacturing already!" because I not only want electric, but I want it in the kind of car I prefer to drive!

[wh500special 2,053]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

 

 

I initially wanted one just to be on the "bleeding edge" but "perceived" practicality (and, yes, cost) held me back. Now I can see how I could fit it into my way of life and I cheering them all on with "ok, people, start manufacturing already!" because I not only want electric, but I want it in the kind of car I prefer to drive!

I’ve been looking to buy a new car for over a year.  Just can’t bring myself to pull the trigger.  Certainly missed out on timing the market, but that’s sort of a theme of my life. 
 

Unless I let this be my midlife crisis car and buy something with a stick shift - I figure this may be my last opportunity to

do so - it’s going to be a Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV).  That’s the class the Chevy Volt was in before it was killed off in the Big-3 mass extinction event for sedans.
 

There aren’t a lot of options but they are an excellent way to bridge the gap between traditional ICE (Internal combustion Engine) vehicles and full electric.  Range anxiety not a problem. 

 

Compared to my relatively efficient truck - which I am keeping and relegating to part time duty - driving on electricity costs about 1/10 as much as gas at current rates. And it provides a choice depending on situation. 
 

Unfortunately, I think PHEV’s aren’t long for this world and may be a dying fad…I know how to pick ‘em. 
 

steve

[Handy Don 10,586]

20 minutes ago, wh500special said:

Unless I let this be my midlife crisis car

Part of my realization is that I'm now driving my all time favorite car (no, much as I loved stick shifts, that part of my life is over). I baby it, but it is approaching 300k miles and cannot last forever! By making it the "long haul only" vehicle and replacing our compact sedan with an EV I can probably extend its life for a few years while gas is still available.

Heck, maybe in 4 or 5 years the government will pay me to take it off the road like they do for 70's cars in California!

 

But, back to the topic, I've been thinking that this infrastructure bill might put better power distribution into more rural areas. That'd extend the potential market for electric GTs, I'd think. (Our family keeps one tractor at a camp that has NO electricity or running water--propane for lighting, cooking, and refrigeration and hand pumping for water. Small generator for power tools and running the vacuum to clean house! Got us a cell phone antenna close enough to make a call only last year--before that we drove 5+ miles to town and stood near the old public phone booth.)

Edited November 9, 2021 by Handy Don