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MerkedTrick

Toro Wheel Horse 522xi Engine running rough

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MerkedTrick

Hi,

 

I have a Toro Wheel Horse 522xi that all of a sudden started running rough. 

 

Engine is a Kohler CH22S Horizontal Shaft and is connected to a Wheel Horse 522XI with 1100 hours. Power steering and deck lift. Eaton 1100 trans. Not sure of year 1998-2006?

 

What I have done is removed the SAM or DSAI module and wired 2 new ignition coils. New spark plugs and new air filter. 

 

Both sides have a strong blue spark. Here is a video https://youtu.be/MxhkuU3nZuA

of the engine running full throttle and at idle. Smokes at idle and seems like it's going to die. 

 

Also, mower has the same symptoms while blades are engaged and without. Moves forward and backwards

 

Need help. Not sure what to test. 

Edited by MerkedTrick

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8ntruck

 :text-welcomeconfetti: to the forum.  Somebody with 522xi experience will be along soon with some advice for you.

 

My initial thought is that you might have a carb issue, maybe a vacuum leak somewhere?

 

Good luck.

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Skipper

did it run fine before you changed stuff on it?

 

My thought too would be to get the carb apart, and check the breather filter while you are down in it.

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gwest_ca

See how fast the exhaust heats up on each cylinder.

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JoeM

Sure has a peculiar sound to it.

Lots of missing info. 

I suppose the magneto change was an effort to straighten it out? I have done one and they supplied a new flywheel because the key is about 5 degrees different using the magento. I really don't know if that is the problem. 

As easy as it is to take the top off the carb I would do that and make sure all the ports are clean and the float is working correctly. 

Another is is those fuel pumps. They can play havoc with that engine.

Definitely do a compression test.

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MerkedTrick

Sorry, a little more info leading up.

 

When I bought it a few weeks ago. Right side had no spark. Took the engine out and replaced both coils and rewired it so that I had one wire going to each coil then split to the kill wire. Gapped the coils to the magneto buttoned everything back, mower ran great. Until I ran out of gas. Put new gas 91 octane. Ran fine back to the house. Sat for a day and now have the issue in the video. 

 

Took the carb apart cleaned with carb cleaner and wire cleaned all the ports I could see. Put it back yet same issue. 

 

I have ordered a new carb hoping that solves the issue. 

 

the exhaust appears to heat up similarly. I know I have spar on both sides, used a tester and also shocked myself pulling on the boots. No difference in pulling one or the other.

 

I didn't check the fuel pump but that'll be on my list. I figured since it's starting the pump should be working fine right. 

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roadapples

:WRS:

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JoeM
7 hours ago, MerkedTrick said:

I have ordered a new carb hoping that solves the issue

Ouch!

I seen in the vid you was working th choke, It seems rich to begin with, like the float is not sealing. A pic of those plugs might be a big help.

That old carb has got to have something you over looked. 

I would bypass the fuel pump and put it on an IV bottle.

 

Just as a crazy thought, You said the spark is good and strong, but one time I had a coil wire that was not making good contact inside the boot and the machine stumbilled the same. Used a spark tester to diagnose. The video before and after the wire repair.

 

 

Edited by JoeM

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shallowwatersailor

Sounds like a mechanical issue. Do a compression test.

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MerkedTrick

Just checked compression...left side reading 145 and right side reading 150. The manual says it should be 160. Is that my problem? It doesn't seem like much if a difference but I'm not that versed in these engines. 

 

Ordered an inline spark tester and will update in how that goes....dreading having to pull the engine out again.

 

Here is what the spark plugs look like. Top is right side (150 psi) bottom is left side. (145 psi).

 

I think this is leading me to an intermittent spark from the coil on the left side. 

20210915_075103.jpg

Edited by MerkedTrick

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MerkedTrick

Also, videos from the spark tester:

Left

 

Right:

https://youtube.com/shorts/5IqZWmJ6BB8?feature=share

 

It is not like the above video of the good spark test. Maybe a wire got loose. 

 

Thoughts? Pretty sure it's a coil issue 

Edited by MerkedTrick

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JoeM
2 hours ago, MerkedTrick said:

Maybe a wire got loose.

what was the gap on your coils? I use .010 A dollar bill folded in two is just about right.

Sure seems like the left side is struggling. 

 

Those compression reading I would take that all day long on an 1100 hour machine

Edited by JoeM

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MerkedTrick

For the gap, I used a business card it worked well after I got it put back together maybe something wasnt tightened or these cheap amazon coils went bad. Pulling the engine today and will report back with what I find. 

 

Yea left side seems to be the one. Funny thing, when I replaced the coils, it was the right side that went out. 

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MerkedTrick

Got the motor out and all the wiring seems fine and tight but.......the flywheel air gap on the left side was pretty tight. I could not fit a .28mm feeler gauge in between the sides of the coil. The flywheel turns free and does not hit the coil at all. 

 

Could this be the issue? The 3rd picture is the left side. The right side is gapped to .30mm.

20210915_173028.jpg

20210915_173022.jpg

20210915_172820.jpg

Edited by MerkedTrick

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JoeM

They should be right on. like I said, I mic a piece of paper and put it between the coil and magnet with screws loose and let the coil rest on the paper then tighten the screws. A doubled up dollar bill is .010. .25mm, might try a business card some of those are just right. 

I have had them set to close and did not run right.

I would also check the ohm value between the plug wire and steel laminations. I am thinking 2.5 to 5K ohms is a good reading. Might wiggle the spark plug wire while doing the test to see if there is any fluctuation. 

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MerkedTrick

Checked ohms. Warning, not an expert at this. 

 

Left side

boot to ground : 3.86

Ground to kill wire: 15.05

 

Right side: 

Boot to ground: 3.93 

Ground to kill wire : 15.06

 

Gapped the coils with .30mm feeler gauge/triple checked all connections. Giving it a try tomorrow......

Edited by MerkedTrick
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JoeM

Numbers seem good.

Now wondering if the magnet is not strong enough on the flywheel. I have not seen any procedure for that test.

Clean those plugs up with some carb cleaner too. 

Your probably getting like a nascar crew taking the engine out. I know now I can get it in under an hour. I have done a couple rear seal changes.

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MerkedTrick

Welp, nothing changed, same symptoms as before. I had a thought right after I put the engine back that maybe I should have cleaned/ sanded the magnets. Spark tester showed alot more consistency on that left side though. 

 

Definitely now its alot quicker getting it out but my back is not liking it at all. 

 

Gonna clean the magnets, clean the plugs and see what happens. I ended up cancelling the carb but maybe regretting that. Need to get this mower out and aerate my lawn. 

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MerkedTrick

After cleaning plugs and magnets....same rough running. 

 

I'm beginning to think that my cleaning of the carb was not that good. Ordered a new one and will try again tomorrow. 

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oliver2-44

If your going to clean the carb again I would also replace any inline fuel filter it has. I’m not familiar with XI tractors. Since this is a new to you machine how difficult would it be to pull the gas tank and clean it. Also pull the tank bottom valve and make sure that screen on it is clean. 

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MerkedTrick

That was going to be my next course of action. 

 

Replacing the carb since it seems to original to the machine and all the fuel lines along with filter. 

I did run it until it was empty on gas and that's when the problems started. So maybe it sucked some debris from the tank

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JoeM

@MerkedTrick Somehow I missed that running out of gas line. I went back and reread the thread and it is there.

Best way to eliminate the fuel tank system is to put some gas in a clean plastic bottle and a inlet hose from the fuel pump and try it.

If it works and you have to clean the tank. Before you remove the tank and shake it all up, you can take off the fender (it has to come off to get tank off),  and remove the fuel gauge sending unit drain the tank and you can see what is around the gas tank valve inlet through the sending unit hole. Some tank valves have screens. 

 

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MerkedTrick

Success! I disconnected the hose with the fuel filter from the fuel pump and connected a new hose from a gas can to the fuel pump port.fired it up and ran great, had it on low idle for 5 minutes and stayed didnt miss a beat. What I  then did was disconnect the fuel tank in the back from the fuel shutoff port. Drained all the gas from the tank. Shot compressed air through all the hoses. Reconnected everything and boom runs great, even getting the 7mph now. 

 

I did not clean the tank since it was running good and maybe laziness (maybe from smelling the gas fumes). 

 

I guess I was so worried I messed something up when I redid the coils I jumped to conclusions and thought that was it. Live and learn I guess. 

 

Thanks @JoeM and everyone else for sticking with me

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JoeM

Awesome News! 

I'm giving you a lot of credit......you even pulled the engine! (with pictures too)

@MerkedTrick you got back us with the the cure, some folks never get back just turn and burn! :handgestures-thumbup:

Hope to see you around the forum in the future. (giving and not getting advice) You are now a bonafide xi expert. 

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MerkedTrick

I think I set the land speed record for pulling the engine out :D. I'll be here with questions or advice when I can. 

 

Thanks again!

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