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Wellingtontx

Rebuild WH 5091 8 speed - anybody rebuild ?

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Wellingtontx

I will try to get some better pics.  Do you think it can be salvaged ?  Not enough to be able to tell ?

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Wellingtontx

32FBEDC3-EF2F-4EFD-82C8-B80E4930A948.jpeg

26C8C3D0-2623-4633-BA53-6BB260901C3C.jpeg

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Wellingtontx

89195C95-ED3E-4CFB-BC19-A2639CBB2416.jpeg

21B8BAC8-E770-4003-B5AA-710344A664A4.jpeg

33E826A0-4915-4F6F-B9EB-1A8B2C9D5E5C.jpeg

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Wellingtontx

EC0D96D8-7779-4855-9E6C-D81FD9B61099.jpeg

60502591-B68E-42B5-B40B-766719A68DE3.jpeg

514AA519-45CC-433E-93CE-7CEBB5C46D4A.jpeg

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oliver2-44

The common high abuse areas are the outer edge of the input gear and the inside edge of its mating gear. Also that middle gear on the cluster shaft and the 2 gears that have the grooves for the shift forks.  Need to see those gears better. 

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oliver2-44
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Wellingtontx said:

32FBEDC3-EF2F-4EFD-82C8-B80E4930A948.jpeg

26C8C3D0-2623-4633-BA53-6BB260901C3C.jpeg

This gear has a little edge wear but looks very usable

Edited by oliver2-44

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oliver2-44
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Wellingtontx said:

89195C95-ED3E-4CFB-BC19-A2639CBB2416.jpeg

21B8BAC8-E770-4003-B5AA-710344A664A4.jpeg
The above gear looks usable and the input gear below looks ok. 

 

33E826A0-4915-4F6F-B9EB-1A8B2C9D5E5C.jpeg

Edited by oliver2-44

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oliver2-44

You might also check the area where the seals ride on the 4 shafts. Make sure it doesn’t have a groove worn in those areas where the seal lip rides. A tiny tiny bit of wear is Ok and can be smoothed a little with very fine emery or wet/dry sand paper 

 

So best I can tell from photos your gears are good to use. 
 
when it comes to cleaning I may be a little extreme, but I like to buff everything on a bench grinder with a wire brush to get the parts fairly rust free. 
Another easy but a little pricy cleaning method is to degrease them then get some Evaporust and soak them in it   It works really well. $20 a quart I think

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Wellingtontx

Thank you so much for all your help.  Your assistance is invaluable.

 

I will try the Evaporust. 

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oliver2-44

With out pro Stevasarus out for surgery I’d appreciate if some others would give their comments on these parts as well

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Oldskool

With your parts do you have 2,   1/4"ball bearings? A 3/16" x7/8" (approx) size pin and a spring (approx) size 1-1/4"x1/4"?

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oliver2-44
8 hours ago, Wellingtontx said:

Shaft measures 1 1/8 inch.

 

Finally re-confirmed Model No.:  10385 9

 

I now believe that it may be a 1974 C-162 vs. C-160.   Decals say C-160 but the Wheel Horse Master Model List says C-162

 

Anybody know the difference between a C-160 v C-162 ?  Note:  Just found a prior post from 2011 thats says difference is the Tecumseh engine main difference.  Decals say C-160.

  @gwest_ca I verified the Master Model List does indeed say C-162. Is this correct or is this a typo and it should say C-161. 
Thanks

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Tuneup

Other than a couple of gear replacements, this looks OK to me. Shifting on the fly really does its damage. Makes me want to stop doing that...

 

How are the big axle bearings in the case? They should move freely and without much slop. They are newly available thanks to a member but they are pricey. I repaired two of these transmissions with the help of handy videos from this list. Still going strong.

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oliver2-44

Going through your part pictures I did not see this hi/low shift fork.  Make sure the edges of the fork are smooth. 
image.jpeg.b6d0cb16d1d5c97a6095345fd6e53bfd.jpeg
 

Since the original problem was “Can’t shift into 2&3 gear”. I’m going to go back through the photos and see if I see any problem. I’d appreciate others commenting on this as well. 

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oliver2-44
2 hours ago, Oldskool said:

With your parts do you have 2,   1/4"ball bearings? A 3/16" x7/8" (approx) size pin and a spring (approx) size 1-1/4"x1/4"?

@Wellingtontx at @Oldskool is correct you should have a ball, spring and pin for the regular gear shift and 2 roll pins to put you shift forks back on the pins.  Note in Steve thread your forks are mounted on the pins so you have a right and left fork and the bases of the fork form a square notch for the ball at the end of the shifter shaft to go into.  You also should have a ball and spring for the hi/lo shift mechanism.  If your missing the 1/4" ball bearings you can find them in those gray parts drawers at your ACE or other hardware store. 

DSCF9237.JPG

Make sure you have the thin shim washer shown in the center of this picture.  Also the 2 shifter parts shown in the bottom center and bottom right side of this picture. 

 

@Wellingtontx I went back through the pictures on my bigger computer monitor and don't see anything that just out at me as to why this transmission would not shift into 2nd,3rd gear.  With it sitting in a bucket it hard to say how rusty the parts were before it was disassembled verses how much rust came from it sitting in the bucket.  The fact that someone disassembled the shifter forks makes me wonder if the shifter ball. spring and short pin were sticking due to rust.  I had a waterery/rusty 3 piece Suburban transmission and as i disassembled it, the shift forks moved very hard. Once I disassemble and cleaned up the shift fork shafts, the hole where the ball and spring go, etc an added a little grease the shift fork shafts moved up and down past thee detent ball nicely. Water  gets in these transmissions from sitting outside and especially with a torn or missing shifter rubber boot.   I think with a good cleaning/deburring of all the rusty parts and making sure everything slides/rotates easily as you assemble it you should be good to go.

@squonk @Oldskool @WHX24, @pullstart  @pfrederi others  do ya'll see anything that might cause this transmission not to shift.  As noted above the 2 shift gears and the center gear on the cluster shaft have some wear/rounding on the teeth edges, but I don't think that's enough to cause problems. 

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WHX??
Posted (edited)

Those parts pictured look good to go from here. I would clean things up check all bearings and slap her back together then bench test. I would like to see the business side of the 3523 3rd gear tho and the mating side of the input shaft. Once all things are back in place you can check the the whole operation with one side off yet. 

Edited by WHX24

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WHX??
Posted (edited)

A manual if you don't have one. 

wheelhorse_6-8mechtransman.pdf

Edited by WHX24

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pullstart

I’ve had rust be the culprit of a now shift as well.  It looks like this might have sat outside more than one night in it’s life.  Water runs down the gear shift and if the rubber shift boot is dry-rotted or missing, it’ll run water right in.  The first close up gear looks like a tell tale sign of shifting on the fly as well.  As a reminder (though I realize you didn’t cause the harm), never shift gears during travel.  A full and complete stop ensures positive gear engagement and no wear.

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Wellingtontx

You guys are the best - seriously would be lost without your help.  

 

I will look for the little ball bearings referenced above, the spring, pin and washer when I get back in town.

 

I am encouraged that this thing will run again.  LOL  

 

Got the battery on the charger so whenever I get the transmission finished, can start seeing what, if anything, is wrong with the engine.  I was told nothing but it was sitting outside for a long period of time.

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Oldskool

When I took my first 8 speed apart it wouldnt shift 3 to 4. The problem with that was a missing detent ball. The spring was jamming up in the shift rod. Other then that it all turned by hand easily. As I dove in deeper it just got worse. You will want to take your bull gear and axle assembly apart to inspect. This is what i found when i took mine apart.

20210428_122550.jpg

20210428_122611.jpg

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pullstart

That right there is an @Oldskool Lincoln Locker!

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WHX??

:text-yeahthat::lol: Someone was an aspiring puller! 

 

The balls are just .25 ball bearings. the pin is about 7/8 long. Our resident transmission expert @stevasaurus took some time off to sober up we suspect but can verify things when he gets back. 

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stevasaurus

Your hi/low mechanism is still in your RH case half.  You have to remove those gears and the shaft to get at it.  Check the manual and my video on how to take that apart and put it back together.  That fork in there is what may have been your issue for not shifting...not between 2nd and 3rd, but more likely between hi and low range.  Everything else in your pictures looks good to useable.  There is a drift pin to pound out, but make sure you tap it out in the correct direction. 

   In those numbers you showed on the trans..the 8163 is the part number for the RH case half.  The others are for the foundry.

   I like a wire wheel also to clean gears and shafts.  Your transmission probably is in fact a #5091.  :occasion-xmas:

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Wellingtontx

Thank you everyone.  I have my work cut out for me.

 

Are the detent bolts suppose to be essentially flat on one side ?  Can you buy replacements ?

 

I don't mind buying new gears - where needed if you see anything

 

If there is any parts question I would prefer to buy new parts.  

 

 

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Oldskool

Everything I saw looked usable. Have you had a chance to inspect your pinions gears or bearings? Also like mentioned previously check your shafts for wear at the seal contact area.

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