Torque

[Gregor 4,838]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

The tractor wasn't used to all the power available from the predator over the Tecky! 

That's just mean !

[Tractorhead 8,610]

@stevasaurus i mentioned you, because i believe you be one of the experienced together with paul @pfrederi as far as i know

in case of Gearboxes and loads.

The question was about how much torque they can handle, so i thought you maybe have a Datasheet from.

You saved lot‘s of gearboxes, that was my initial thinking to mention you.

I never have an abuse of a gearbox in my thinking, I just thought you have a datasheet.

 

btw.

I still miss my Tecky for it’s brutal low rpm torque no doubt, i will fix it in a silent periode, that‘s the reason i kept it.

 

In my compare is the torque on idle or a little higher idle at 2000RPM on the Tecky definitiv higher than the Predator have in idle or on the same RPM‘s. Just above this rpm’s the predator develops more torque.

Even if the Predator shall have 9  or 11HP that seems a much more than the tecky has - fact is the torque on the predator is definitiv less than the 6 Tecky in lower rpm range.

 

The throttle response and the governor response on the Predator is much better, that‘s my reason i delayed the rework a little.

but as long as i had my Tecky it never stalls while i engage the clutch little faster,

it just stall’s if i slipped down completely from the Clutch pedal in idle.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Tractorhead

[stevasaurus 22,229]

I knew that Steffan...all is well.  

[Handy Don 10,594]

1 hour ago, Tractorhead said:

The throttle response and the governor response on the Predator is much better, that‘s my reason i delayed the rework a little.

but as long as i had my Tecky it never stalls while i engage the clutch little faster,

it just stall’s if i slipped down completely from the Clutch pedal in idle.

 

I'd be interested in knowing the respective rotating mass of those two engines, i.e. their moments of inertia at idle speed or just above.  

The "no stall" and slower throttle response are both symptoms of a heavier rotating mass.

The stall and quick throttle response are both symptoms of lighter rotating mass.

Steel costs money when building and shipping engines. I suspect predators have been scrupulously engineered to use as little as possible by taking advantage of better alloys and advanced stress analysis!

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Whoa Don...that is heavy.  I am not even sure where you would find anything...maybe Kohler???  Could be proprietary??

[fast88pu 3,313]

11 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Eaton specifies 15kw as the max input for the current 1100-078. That's 20.1153hp -- just where the 520 runs!

 

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.1100-078.specifications.html

 

They don't mention burnouts anywhere that I can find, but I have seen a vid of a hydro doing wheelies 

I will soon be pushing 50+ hp through an Xi hydro. Will it last? Who knows, or cares. It will be fun

[Handy Don 10,594]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Whoa Don...that is heavy.  I am not even sure where you would find anything...maybe Kohler???  Could be proprietary??

For sure proprietary. Data like that probably doesn't help sell engines but could help the competition!

Some years ago did some consulting work for Case Corp. They had a department that bought, analyzed, and tested competitors' equipment (all the manufacturers do this). But the results of the work were very closely held and I sure didn't get to see any of it!

[Tractorhead 8,610]

7 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I'd be interested in knowing the respective rotating mass of those two engines, i.e. their moments of inertia at idle speed or just above.  

The "no stall" and slower throttle response are both symptoms of a heavier rotating mass.

The stall and quick throttle response are both symptoms of lighter rotating mass.

Steel costs money when building and shipping engines. I suspect predators have been scrupulously engineered to use as little as possible by taking advantage of better alloys and advanced stress analysis!

 

When i compare the weights of the Engines it should be agree to you.

There is 12 Kilo’s difference.

Some things are easy to see i.eg.the Fan on the flywheel is plastic so less rotating mass,

even so surely some other things be „optimized“ for weight and cost.

 

However, the Engine runs and upperhalf the 2000 RPM it have plenty of power.

 

[Rfp55 33]

Either type trans adequate and really durable - if you do not add duals, 700# extra ballast for plowing/ pulling or regearing to get 3600 rpm at 0.25 mph. 

[Tractorhead 8,610]

Btw anybody know‘s the maximum allowed input speed of a Unidrive?

 

i‘m just curious what the manufacturer allows on max. Rating input rpm continousely without damage the gearbox.

 

[Gregor 4,838]

37 minutes ago, Tractorhead said:

Btw anybody know‘s the maximum allowed input speed of a Unidrive?

I don't know. But don't take it on the Autobahn.

[Tractorhead 8,610]

7 hours ago, Gregor said:

I don't know. But don't take it on the Autobahn.

Why not ???? 😂😎

[ebinmaine 63,100]

11 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Btw anybody know‘s the maximum allowed input speed of a Unidrive?

 

i‘m just curious what the manufacturer allows on max. Rating input rpm continousely without damage the gearbox.

 

I don't know if there's a rating officially. 

 

LOTS of rigs do 12 to 15 mph with success. 

@Greentored Scott has done 30 or so. 

 

Not sure on longevity at that point. 

 

Why are you asking?

[Ed Kennell 35,764]

14 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Btw anybody know‘s the maximum allowed input speed of a Unidrive?

 

 

 

My neighbors report there is an old crazy guy being a nuisance as he speeds around the countryside making excess noise.on a red tractor.

 

 

[tom2p 2,393]

On 3/28/2021 at 5:07 PM, Handy Don said:

I'd be interested in knowing the respective rotating mass of those two engines, i.e. their moments of inertia at idle speed or just above.  

The "no stall" and slower throttle response are both symptoms of a heavier rotating mass.

The stall and quick throttle response are both symptoms of lighter rotating mass.

Steel costs money when building and shipping engines. I suspect predators have been scrupulously engineered to use as little as possible by taking advantage of better alloys and advanced stress analysis!

rotating mass an important subject for off road motorcycle riders - many would install an additional flywheel weight on their 2-stroke bikes to improve ride ability on trails / tight woods riding ... I believe some install them today on their 2 and 4 stroke bikes 

 

I was on the other end of the scale - loved the quick revving bikes with low rotating mass ... quick stab at the clutch lever and the engine would shriek to life ... good times !

 

[Greentored 3,201]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I don't know if there's a rating officially. 

 

LOTS of rigs do 12 to 15 mph with success. 

@Greentored Scott has done 30 or so. 

 

Not sure on longevity at that point. 

 

Why are you asking?

Some of you fellas disagree with what a few folks, myself included, are doing/have done with some of our beloved Horses, but if you read this to the end, you may not feel the need to send a lynch mob just yet

The WH unidrives are TOUGH, even the early 3/4 speeds, that is exactly what makes them so appealing to the folks who want to hotrod them or otherwise do things they were not intended for. Add that to one super beefy chassis, front axle, spindles and and steering, and they're hard to say no to..

The 654 I had ran a hopped up 11hp OHV and ran 28mph. Trans input speed was something like 12,000rpm versus 2400-2500 stock. The trans was worn and noisy when I got it (it matched the rest of the machine) and was no worse when I sold it. I ran it for a entire summer and the only failure was one broken axle hub, which was destroyed and had a keyway that wrapped 1/4 turn around the hub when I got it. After feeling guilty about using a round hood for the shenanigans I sold it, and last I heard it was back to stock and pulling a firewood wagon through the woods. That makes me happy

Wanting to still have some fun but with a somewhat less desirable model, I built the B-1 bomber, and am using it more as a utility/offroad crawler than a beater. Aside from beefing up the spindles a bit, a set of gnarly ATV tires, and a link to tie the brake to the deck lift arm for stopping, nothing has been done that cant be undone back to original in an afternoon. The stock K321 retains the governor at 3400-3500, the big 8 pinion 8 speed has flipped pinions to lock the axles (no welding!), and the stock pulleys are on the shelf. Top speed is 17-18mph. Trans input speed is in the 7200-7500rpm range and it stays happy, cool, and quiet there.

Field reports from other guys running Horses, they have seen an occasional broken axle of the 1" variety, and they have to keep an eye on the hubs, checking after every ride or two. Most are running 15-20mph top speeds, with a few nuts running well over that, and they are being powered by everything from stock K181s to hopped up V twins and diesels. Some of these guys are beating the living TAR out of them on a regular basis, and they hold up to whatever is thrown at them.

Yes, it tugs at the heart strings a bit seeing some of the beatings these guys are giving their Horses, but to each his own I guess. Really don't know what the limits are on these transmissions, but the offroad guys are pushing them far beyond their limits, and rarely seem to hurt them one bit. WHEEL HORSE TOUGH!

Edited April 1, 2021 by Greentored

[Tractorhead 8,610]

Why you’re asking Eric.. 🤫

 

Firstly i like to know it just for Info.

 

But Yes, i thinkering and brainstorming a little about a Funny Car project with the spare Gearbox i have if that dang lockdown keeps longer, actually it seems the USA trip this year is a mission impossible or still away...

Lockdowns and some other regulatory informations give me a bad feeling for it.

They thinkering about to extend the lockdown until June. No real info‘s available and if you get any, they be not happy.

 

However, if i can’t spent my Holiday’s this year with you fella’s in The USA on the Big Show i have to do something for my soul,

so i may be try to built a Funny Roadracer with a complete selfmade Frame but i don‘t wanna Kill the Tranny in any Way.

Using - yes, maybe misusing - ok but definitely not raping or even destroy.

 

It shall be a Fun project like my FEL‘s but more details, if the idea is more final complete and it becomes more true,

maybe i also trashed that idea, but it‘s interesting to know where are the limits.

as allready stated using yes, misusing ok, but no rape.

 

 

[tom2p 2,393]

 

On 4/1/2021 at 8:28 AM, Greentored said:

On 4/1/2021 at 8:28 AM, Greentored said:
The 654 I had ran a hopped up 11hp OHV and ran 28mph. Trans input speed was something like 12,000rpm versus 2400-2500stock. The trans was worn and noisy when I got it (it matched the rest of the machine) and was no worse when I sold it. I ran it for a entire summer and the only failure was one broken axle hub, which was destroyed and had a keyway that wrapped 1/4 turn around the hub when I got it. After feeling guilty about using a round hood for theshenanigans I sold it, and last I heard it was back to stock and pulling a firewood wagon through the woods. That makes me happy

 

you sold the trail machine ?

 

that thing was awesome !

 

[Greentored 3,201]

On 4/3/2021 at 2:03 AM, tom2p said:

 

you sold the trail machine ?

 

that thing was awesome !

 

I did!  

...and it changed hands THREE more times within 2 months. One of the guys who had it for a short time said it scared the previous owner, who told him 'this thing is scary, someones gonna get hurt on it.'  The new owner said he rode it once, agreed, and sold it again

[Tractorhead 8,610]

Cowards?

 

😂😎