Gravel Kohler (K301?) revival/questions

[seuadr 488]

Here is the machine in question:

 

 

also discovered i am a fraud! it is a 5660! (not totally sure what the difference is) that bracket between the bars is for the steering brakes.

 

here are a couple shots of it's older brother and it's older brother's parts donor:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by seuadr

[seuadr 488]

Looking for a good source for the governor spring - anybody have a part number for it?

 

i am not having any luck identifying it in any parts fisches i can find for 5665/5660

[tunahead72 2,337]

I suspect that would be a Kohler part, not Gravely.  I know we have a parts manual for that engine here somewhere on the forum.  If you don't find it before then, I'll give it a try in the morning.

 

[Mickwhitt 4,143]

Just done a rebuild thread on a Kohler K301 so plenty of info there. It is a clockwise rotation motor when looking at the blower housing. The T mark is top dead centre, S is for spark when the points break.

Mick

[seuadr 488]

9 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

I suspect that would be a Kohler part, not Gravely.  I know we have a parts manual for that engine here somewhere on the forum.  If you don't find it before then, I'll give it a try in the morning.

 

i must be missing the parts fiche in there?

[tunahead72 2,337]

 Mick's thread is a good one, definitely worth reading.

 

Here's the K301 parts manual:

Engine Kohler K301 12hp Spec 4710-47835 IPL #TP-2097.pdf - Kohler - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

There's two general styles of governor springs for the K301, you'll see them as parts 11 and 12 in the governor section (Group 17).  The exact spring you'll need depends on the variation number, which is determined from the engine's spec number.  I don't know enough about these engines to tell you specifically which spring will fit your engine, so hopefully some of the more knowledgeable guys here will chime in, actually I'm sure they will. 

 

Did you ever find any plates or stickers on the engine?  That would give you the spec number.  Or maybe one of the Gravely sites can narrow it down.

 

[seuadr 488]

4 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

 Mick's thread is a good one, definitely worth reading.

 

Here's the K301 parts manual:

Engine Kohler K301 12hp Spec 4710-47835 IPL #TP-2097.pdf - Kohler - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

There's two general styles of governor springs for the K301, you'll see them as parts 11 and 12 in the governor section (Group 17).  The exact spring you'll need depends on the variation number, which is determined from the engine's spec number.  I don't know enough about these engines to tell you specifically which spring will fit your engine, so hopefully some of the more knowledgeable guys here will chime in, actually I'm sure they will. 

 

Did you ever find any plates or stickers on the engine?  That would give you the spec number.  Or maybe one of the Gravely sites can narrow it down.

 

thanks! i was looking at the service manual, thinking that there would be a parts fiche in there. 

 

i totally forgot about getting the spec number, so i just ran out and got it:

 

model number: K301S

spec number: 47601D

 

thanks for the reminder!

[tunahead72 2,337]

Looks like the spring is part no. 235496.  Do you have the old one to compare against the picture in the parts manual?

 

[seuadr 488]

4 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

Looks like the spring is part no. 235496.  Do you have the old one to compare against the picture in the parts manual?

 

i do not. but i found the same part number when cross referencing so if it is wrong, at least we are both wrong?

 

i purchased this as a basket case so i'm still in the process of finding out what is missing.

 

so far, not much, but we are down to the little pieces now so i anticipate more missing parts

[seuadr 488]

ok! so i was wrong - i DO have that spring. the PO had it connected to something else entirely, but then again, the PO also drilled a hole in the governor linkage and wrapped wire around the handle instead of just switching the throttle linkage around so...

 

this feels right - it moves nice and easy and it connected up easily. i might have the throttle bracket that attaches to the shourd upside down, not sure.

now i got it almost buttoned up - just missing the fuel pump and lines as far as i can tell.

 

did have a question - in the parts diagrams i've seen, this cover doesn't have this open spot:

 

any idea what that is for? seems to go through to the inside of the motor so i'm thinking vacuum but the fuel pump is mechanical so i'm not sure what for? I don't have the air cleaner hooked up yet - perhaps it has something to do with the remote air cleaner..

 

i also have this cover for... something?

 

 

next thing i'm working on - cleaning and lubing these guys:

 

and of course, i gotta figure out how exactly they are supposed to go.. but that is going to mean digging out the machine so i can work on both parts at once.

Still, making good progress i think!

[squonk 38,906]

That plate is supposed to cover the fins between the coil and dipstick

 

I think that hole is supposed to have a tube that runs to the air cleaner for crankcase vent. You can see the remains of the tube in this pic.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by squonk

[seuadr 488]

7 minutes ago, squonk said:

That plate is supposed to cover the fins between the coil and dipstick

 

 

I think that hole is supposed to have a tune that runs to the air cleaner for crankcase vent ? 

Gotcha!

 

since i have the remote air cleaner instead of the local one, it is probably one of the longer pieces of dry rotted tube i had. i can probably locate that and hook it up once i have the remote cleaner .. elbow.. connector.. thing.. attached.

 

thanks!

[squonk 38,906]

Just now, seuadr said:

Gotcha!

 

since i have the remote air cleaner instead of the local one, it is probably one of the longer pieces of dry rotted tube i had. i can probably locate that and hook it up once i have the remote cleaner .. elbow.. connector.. thing.. attached.

 

thanks!

Look at my edited post

 

[seuadr 488]

hey - i just noticed that you have your flywheel.. grill? on under the shroud - mine rubbed against the shroud when under, so i put it over the shroud - does yours rub at all? 

[squonk 38,906]

5 minutes ago, seuadr said:

hey - i just noticed that you have your flywheel.. grill? on under the shroud - mine rubbed against the shroud when under, so i put it over the shroud - does yours rub at all? 

I lifted that pic from Tuul Crib's post it isn't mine, but I think on the small blocks the screen is on the inside. Yours should be on the outside.

[seuadr 488]

Are these bushings shot?

[squonk 38,906]

I see a lot a wear on the gears. Take it apart. Check for rocking on the orbit gears.

[seuadr 488]

 

is that the play you are talking about?

 

looks like i can replace the bushings - will that help or do i need to replace the gears?

[seuadr 488]

so on to the wiring harness for now - mine is essentially non existent, so - now i'm tracking down the wires i need.

 

this is what my harness would look like IF I HAD ONE:

 

 

i have 2 wires (that of course, don't match the colors in the wiring schematic - and also aren't nearly long enough to get to the place they are supposed to go )

 

and i know i can make the wires that go to the ignition. Heck, i think i even have some inline fuse holders laying around (though, they'd be blade type, not glass) but i'm not sure what amperage it is supposed to be.

 

 

according to the schematic it goes from the solenoid to the ignition switch, so i wouldn't expect it should see a ton of amperage, so i'm thinking like a 10? i am assuming the purpose is to provide 12v to the relay inside the solenoid that goes through to the black/white wire to the starter? am i reading that wrong?

[squonk 38,906]

Yes those bushings are replaceable but I see a lot of gear wear.  Looks like 10 amps would be fine for a fuse. If it has one of those plastic fuse holders for a glass fuse throw it away and install a blade style fuse holder with a weatherproof cap.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by squonk

[seuadr 488]

24 minutes ago, squonk said:

Yes those bushings are replaceable but I see a lot of gear wear.  Looks like 10 amps would be fine for a fuse. If it has one of those plastic fuse holders for a glass fuse throw it away and install a blade style fuse holder with a weatherproof cap.

hmm. looks like i can pick up new gears for around 80 bucks a pop.  doesn't look like the idler gears are available new (at least from the place i've checked) but i'm guessing that they are less critical?

 

i was hoping to pick some up used, but the ones i see on ebay look to be as worn, if not more so, than mine! (which i suppose shouldn't be all that surprising)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[seuadr 488]

so i bit the bullet and ordered new replacements. 70 bucks a pop, but i noticed today that the machine's hour meter read almost 1000 hours, so, i guess that is pretty cheap per hour   I also got the fuel pump installed, and fit the motor to the machine so that i can start building my own wiring harness, since it appears i don't have any of that. I figure that i'll need to make it approximately the right length and that will be a lot easier with it in place.

 

actually not bad at all to get lined up and in place, the motor happens to sit the same height as a furniture dolly i use for moving heavy things around the shop so i just rolled it up and bolted it on! 

 

Also discovered that i need a new pan gasket, when i tipped the motor when setting it down on the dolly it leaked out of the front pretty bad.

 

on the bright side, i was going to drop the pan and check the timing anyhow so..

 

 

[seuadr 488]

Orbit gears replaced and new wiring harness made!

 

The new pkug for the ignition had completely different colors than the wiring schematic, but i didn't any wires to begin with so i matched the new colors.

 

Of course after i hooked everything up - it looks like the starter solenoid is bad. 😭 Of course in fairness for all i know it is the original so, probably fair.

 

 

[seuadr 488]

 

She lives! Carb needs some major adjustment as it is pretty lopey and I'm not sure the governor is quite right, but she runs, she drives.

 

I didn't hook up any attachments or check the pto at all because currently neutral is pretty much just a theory and I'd hate to get run over by my own tractor.

[seuadr 488]

Well, they say a picture is worth a thousand words so:

 

 

I was working on adjustment of the carb when the motor just started turning free. I don't know if it was not put together correctly or what, but i was adjusting the liw end of the throttle cable so i wouldn't expect that it overreved or anything. As far as i can tell, there was oil circulation. The cylinder walls aren't scored and the valves still move. The piston was stuck at bottom. Seemed to be oil around the rings abd i put oil in the top of the cylinder and rotated it by hsnd a hslf dozen times before ever putting it back together, but perhaps that was not sufficient. I have some before pics from the other day:
 

 

 

 

has about 15 mins of run time since i put it on - but the rebuild was ~20-30 years ago according to the guy i bought it from.

 

i dunno if there was an issue with assembly or what, but, there does not appear to be any damage to the cylinder or crank, and the piston came right out with just me pushing with my fingers so it was not seized.